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Heavy Chain and Eagle Flight.......


TOLD BAG
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  • 3 years later...

Clearly I need to be checking here more frequently than I have! Sam and Fred, I have no idea of your sources or basis of authority on 1980s operations.  However, I was assigned to the 21st TAS from Feb. 1984 for a 3 year tour.  I was initially the 21st TAS chief navigator, and then moved to become the ALCE commander until the end of my tour.  Late in 1984 I joined what everyone in the 21st TAS knew as "E flight".  It was also referred to as E Flight by 13th Air Force, who ran the missions.  This was not a separate organizational element of the 21st TAS.  It was instead a specifically designated set of personnel who were cleared to fly the missions.  In other words, while I flew E flight missions, I also flew regular 21st TAS missions. 

It is very misleading to suggest that those persons flying those missions simply "twenty years later claim to have been part of them when it was an entirely different mission altogether."  I claim only what I know I was told by the 21TAS and 13th Air Force--that this operation was referred to as E flight.  If an organization's mission changes over time, that does not mean that it is not the same organization, only evolved.  Most certainly, an outside observer is not in a position to second guess without some concrete data refuting what those who were participants were told by the Air Force command with operational responsibility.

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  • 4 years later...

It is over 4 years since my post above, and I have still not seen anything regarding the missions we flew in the '80s out of Clark AB. That mission was very different from the other E-flight missions that have been broadly discussed, but to this date I have heard only silence. Does anything know if this mission has ever become unclassified? I can understand why if not, but I am hoping to tell the story some day...

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/30/2021 at 8:27 PM, businessdr said:

It is over 4 years since my post above, and I have still not seen anything regarding the missions we flew in the '80s out of Clark AB. That mission was very different from the other E-flight missions that have been broadly discussed, but to this date I have heard only silence. Does anything know if this mission has ever become unclassified? I can understand why if not, but I am hoping to tell the story some day...

I have no idea whether the Special Assignment Airlift (SAM) missions, Heavy Jump/Sage Owl, flown by the 374 TAW during the 80's are still classified. Probably.

1598 avoided the beer can material fate.

https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/local/2016/05/02/aircraft-retired-flight-hours/83847258/

https://www.dvidshub.net/video/461674/c-130-retirement-broll

Nice to see that. Kudos to the 120th Airlift Wing guys!    1597 Was at Birmingham last info I've seen from the roster on this website

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For the past several years I reviewed many posts concerning E-flight missions. I would say that during my tour with e-flight, I only knew the details of the missions I flew. I am sure the details of the missions I flew will never be de-classified. I am sure that the crew I flew with would never reveal any details. Not only that, we didn’t discuss any details among ourselves at any time. E-flight had several era’s. I can only speak to the era that I flew in. Classified sensitive information should stay that way.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/16/2021 at 10:21 PM, u106625 said:

For the past several years I reviewed many posts concerning E-flight missions. I would say that during my tour with e-flight, I only knew the details of the missions I flew. I am sure the details of the missions I flew will never be de-classified. I am sure that the crew I flew with would never reveal any details. Not only that, we didn’t discuss any details among ourselves at any time. E-flight had several era’s. I can only speak to the era that I flew in. Classified sensitive information should stay that way.

Correct........... classified information remains classified until it is officially de-classified. If anything classified is discussed, I want no part of it.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 6/25/2021 at 5:12 PM, Graywolf88 said:

Correct........... classified information remains classified until it is officially de-classified. If anything classified is discussed, I want no part of it.

Grayworlf99, that is not quite correct. Executive Order 13526, Section 3.3 (a)  states "Subject to paragraphs (b)–(d) and (g)–(j) of this section, all classified records that (1) are more than 25 years old and (2) have been determined to have permanent historical value under title 44, United States Code, shall be automatically declassified whether or not the records have been reviewed. All classified records shall be automatically declassified on December 31 of the year that is 25 years from the date of origin, except as provided in paragraphs (b)–(d) and (g)–(j) of this section. If the date of origin of an individual record cannot be readily determined, the date of original classification shall be used instead."

As noted above, there are exceptions and I have sought unsuccessfully through the Pentagon and other sources to find an appropriate contact that could give an official answer. 

Perhaps most importantly, I believe my post was clear that I was only asking if anyone had knowledge of the 1980s mission being declassified.  Earlier era E flight missions were different and have apparently been declassified, as books have been written on them. However, I have never seen anything on the 1980s mission and I was only asking.  No one on here has ever suggested discussing any missions that remain classified. In the 35 years since I flew these missions, I have never said one word about where we went, what we did, or anything else related to the mission. I've not seen anything on here suggesting anyone would do otherwise.

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Graywolf, I am well aware. The E Flight I was a member of was SCI level clearance. Per https://www.justice.gov/archives/open/declassification/declassification-faq

"IS SENSITIVE COMPARTMENTED INFORMATION (SCI) SUBJECT TO AUTOMATIC DECLASSIFICATION?

Yes. SCI is subject to automatic declassification unless specifically exempted by an approved file series exemption or declassification guide. All SCI information will be referred to the appropriate member(s) of the Intelligence Community for declassification action."

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  • 1 year later...

Certainly a lot of discussion about E flight and Heavy Chain. Sam has a lot of good info. I joined E flight in Naha AB in 1969 there abouts. We had 5 silver C-130A models. Had TS clearance my crew chief was Mike Dietlman, aircraft 56-0523. We then upgraded to C-130E models. Five gray one's. Thing was they were stationed at CCK AB Taiwan. So most of the crews and maintenance folks PCS'D to Taiwan. In 1972/73 E flight moved from Taiwan to Clark AB PI and once again most of the crews and maintenance folks moved also. I PCS'D from Clark to Blytheville AR in 1981. I think E flight eventually moved to Yokota AB in the 80's. When I left Clark AB there was still an E flight and 374TAW. My aircraft was 1859 and the other four were 7879, 0497, 0515, and 7868. Crew chiefs were Waryha, Odette, Pefier,  Splawn, and Brewer. Enjoyed E flight and all the missions we were involved in in the Far East and Southeast Asia. I think there are two Sam McGowans. The one I knew was a flight engineer and a dam good one. One of our aircraft (I think 0515) was out of commission for a while because a non E flight crew was shooting touch and go's at Tainan and decided to pull CB on warning horn and landed with gear up. I believe that was the story if I remember correctly. I believe that the reason most of the crews and maintenance folks moved with E flight was because we all had TS clearances and to costly and time delays in conducting more clearances. Thanks folks

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On 6/3/2023 at 8:39 PM, Randy Odette said:

"Certainly a lot of discussion about E flight and Heavy Chain...My aircraft was 1859 and the other four were 7879, 0497, 0515, and 7868... we all had TS clearances and to costly and time delays in conducting more clearances. Thanks folks"

62-1859...the one and only '62 model in the wing, while I was there Nov '80 - Oct '90. I remember 497 for a couple of things...Night vis nine-ship ORI mission in the ROK. We were #9 (again). I remarked how good 497's SKE was working, cuz if it was IFR, we'd surely have some problem with it. Another time with 497 was doing a short partial FCF at Clark for something, and left main didn't extend all the way when it was time to land. The co-pilot Ben went back to assist, and they determined that some kind of cover on the inside of the strut had worked loose enough to cause a jam. Some persuasion rectified the situation, and all was then well.The others you mention were still there at Yokota in the late '80's, doing their duty after the wing moved up from Clark in '88. I flew 497 just a couple of months before I PCS'd. We still did most of the tac training down at Clark. 

The classified mission the wing had while I was there was on the schedule as "AF SAM" (Special Assignment Mission). There were two grey airplanes 73-1597 and 73-1598. Bldg 7709 (as I recall) at Clark was where the 21st was and in the back on the west side, was a room that they told me used to be where "E Flight" did their stuff. I guess it had been a vault, because it was definitely heavier duty construction. I never asked about"E" flight cuz was none of my business, and I made it a rule not to know anything classified unless I had to. If we had to refer to one of those AF SAMs, it was called "a projects mission". We worked for Thirteenth Air Force in this case, and Fifth AF later on. 73-1598 is a "gate guard" at Great Falls airport and 73-1597 became Coors cans or something. 

My last PACAF trip was with 73-1597 a week before i PCS'd. Clark-Cubi-Kadena-Iwakuni-Yokota. We had the channel mission for a while cuz 141's were very busy.

1990july.jpg

1990-10-14 , 73-1597, NAS Cubi Pt..JPG

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On 6/3/2023 at 11:39 PM, Randy Odette said:

Certainly a lot of discussion about E flight and Heavy Chain. Sam has a lot of good info. I joined E flight in Naha AB in 1969 there abouts. We had 5 silver C-130A models. Had TS clearance my crew chief was Mike Dietlman, aircraft 56-0523. We then upgraded to C-130E models. Five gray one's. Thing was they were stationed at CCK AB Taiwan. So most of the crews and maintenance folks PCS'D to Taiwan. In 1972/73 E flight moved from Taiwan to Clark AB PI and once again most of the crews and maintenance folks moved also. I PCS'D from Clark to Blytheville AR in 1981. I think E flight eventually moved to Yokota AB in the 80's. When I left Clark AB there was still an E flight and 374TAW. My aircraft was 1859 and the other four were 7879, 0497, 0515, and 7868. Crew chiefs were Waryha, Odette, Pefier,  Splawn, and Brewer. Enjoyed E flight and all the missions we were involved in in the Far East and Southeast Asia. I think there are two Sam McGowans. The one I knew was a flight engineer and a dam good one. One of our aircraft (I think 0515) was out of commission for a while because a non E flight crew was shooting touch and go's at Tainan and decided to pull CB on warning horn and landed with gear up. I believe that was the story if I remember correctly. I believe that the reason most of the crews and maintenance folks moved with E flight was because we all had TS clearances and to costly and time delays in conducting more clearances. Thanks folks

Mr. OD-Randy, does the name Vinny Aquaviva ring a bell? Vince and I used to talk about Naha and CCK with e flight My first duty staion was Naha Sep 0f 68 of course we always had 2 electricians always on status with Bill Goodall was my trainer along with Fred Worrell they eventually went to Ubon and Spectre upon leaving Naha as it was closing. Wasn't Peifer, Splawn, Charlie Brewer, and Waryhaalong with yourself all from Naha? The reason I mention Vince is I eventually was an ART with the 913th at WGARS Pa. from 84 - 2006 when I moved to Pope and retired Vince often would bring your names up since I was at Naha until Jun of 70 where I sent stateside to Chanute but managed to wrangle a trip to Ubon All Expenses Paid for 1 year tp Participate in Linebacker II this time after going to FTD on the F-4 C-D-E and B-57G Airframes. I worked for and with Vinny in Flight Line supervision at WGARS and that man knows the Herc inside and out. Anyway saw your Post and since its rainy season on the ROCK as the song goes " im going back to Namanui 1 more time!

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