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Mt.crewchief

E-Flight Questions

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I have always wondered about something, and never could get an answer! Of course, it has been years since I asked!

I had a good friend at Naha who was in the 21st. TAS and then became a crew-chief in E-Flight. His name is John Eggers. I always asked him just what he did when he went flying, and he would never tell me anything. Even after a whole lot of beer! A few years later he and I met up again at Dover AFB and we went to C-133 FTD classes together, and then instead of going back to the flight-line the rest of the day, we went fishing and of course drank a few beers! He was planning to get out of the AF after 8 years, and even then he wouldn't tell me anything about E-Flight He wouldn't even tell his wife while she was with him in Okinawa!

So---maybe it would be okay to ask that question now--after all, it has been a few years!!!

I'm sure at least one of you forum members were in E-Flight, maybe you could enlighten me!

Did any of you guys know John? I think he is still working or recently retired from an aircraft related job down south!

Thanks for your replys,

Ken Carlson

PS He was in E-Flight in 1968/69

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I have always wondered about something, and never could get an answer! Of course, it has been years since I asked!

I had a good friend at Naha who was in the 21st. TAS and then became a crew-chief in E-Flight. His name is John Eggers. I always asked him just what he did when he went flying, and he would never tell me anything. Even after a whole lot of beer! A few years later he and I met up again at Dover AFB and we went to C-133 FTD classes together, and then instead of going back to the flight-line the rest of the day, we went fishing and of course drank a few beers! He was planning to get out of the AF after 8 years, and even then he wouldn't tell me anything about E-Flight He wouldn't even tell his wife while she was with him in Okinawa!

So---maybe it would be okay to ask that question now--after all, it has been a few years!!!

I'm sure at least one of you forum members were in E-Flight, maybe you could enlighten me!

Did any of you guys know John? I think he is still working or recently retired from an aircraft related job down south!

Thanks for your replys,

Ken Carlson

PS He was in E-Flight in 1968/69

Go to your library and find a copy of AIR COMMANDO 1, the biography of General Harry "Heinie" Aderholt. There is a chapter in it that tells what E Flight was all about. Heinie ran the operation that used E Flight airplanes. Ray Bowers also describes the role of the E Flight airplanes from Naha in his chapter on irregular warfare in TACTICAL AIRLIFT. The CIA's SECRET WAR IN TIBET also describes the E Flight mission in some detail, although it wasn't called that at that time.

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Go to your library and find a copy of AIR COMMANDO 1, the biography of General Harry "Heinie" Aderholt. There is a chapter in it that tells what E Flight was all about. Heinie ran the operation that used E Flight airplanes. Ray Bowers also describes the role of the E Flight airplanes from Naha in his chapter on irregular warfare in TACTICAL AIRLIFT. The CIA's SECRET WAR IN TIBET also describes the E Flight mission in some detail, although it wasn't called that at that time.

I checked Bower's and found that he addressed the E Flight operation in Laos in the War in Laos section. He also says that E Flight was established in late 1961. I corresponded with General Aderholt several years ago before the book about him came out and he said he didn't "set up E Flight" but that he was "the customer." There is an entire chapter about the operation in the book about him, including how the airplanes were flown from Naha to Kadena and how the CAT pilots flew to Taklhi with the Air Force crews and received training enroute. He also mentions "The Bagger" who at that time was a 1st Lieutenant in the 21st and was evidently the project officer.

The practice of using civilian crews to fly USAF airplanes goes back at least to the French-Indo China War when CAT pilots were trained to fly C-119s for the French. An office was set up at Clark to handle the operation, which involved bringing USAF C-119s from Japan to Clark and then sending them on to French Indo-China with CAT pilots. USAF maintenance personnel were based at Tourane (Da Nang) to maintain them. The CIA decided it wanted to be able to use C-130s in 1957 or early 1958, hence the episode with Billie Mills crew at Petersen Field. Billie's experience is chronicled in Conboy and the late Jim Morrison's book, "The CIA's Secret War in Tibet" but he talked to me in detail about it on the telephone about three years ago. Billie is retired in Alabama now and has been going to the various reunions around the country but he was unable to come to San Antonio in November due to his wife's ill health. I did see him a year ago in Clear Lake at the TCTAA board meeting. He and his crew were sent TDY from Sewart to Japan to train the CAT pilots to fly the Herks. The 21st was at Tachikawa at the time with a mixed-bag of C-119s and other airplanes and from what other 21st vets have told me was heavily involved in covert operations. The squadron transferred to Naha and transitioned into C-130s.

There had been an operation at Kadena and another at Clark that used black B-29s. It was evidently that operation that became the office that Heinie Aderholt was in charge of in the late 50s and early 60s. Heinie tells how they were using a couple of C-118s for the missions but due to payload issues, etc. they came up with the idea of getting access to C-130s.

The CIA declassified many of its records recently and much of what used to be classified no longer is.

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my father was a crew chief around that time,msgt fred stryker,did you know him?

any way to get info on the beeliners from that period?

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I have always wondered about something, and never could get an answer! Of course, it has been years since I asked!

I had a good friend at Naha who was in the 21st. TAS and then became a crew-chief in E-Flight. His name is John Eggers. I always asked him just what he did when he went flying, and he would never tell me anything. Even after a whole lot of beer! A few years later he and I met up again at Dover AFB and we went to C-133 FTD classes together, and then instead of going back to the flight-line the rest of the day, we went fishing and of course drank a few beers! He was planning to get out of the AF after 8 years, and even then he wouldn't tell me anything about E-Flight He wouldn't even tell his wife while she was with him in Okinawa!

So---maybe it would be okay to ask that question now--after all, it has been a few years!!!

I'm sure at least one of you forum members were in E-Flight, maybe you could enlighten me!

Did any of you guys know John? I think he is still working or recently retired from an aircraft related job down south!

Thanks for your replys,

Ken Carlson

PS He was in E-Flight in 1968/69

I can't remember what he looked like, but I must have known him. I was there during that time and I too was in E-Flight. I was one of the aircrat electricians assigned to E-Flight back then. I was 20 yrs old. Man, what an experience!

Phil

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I can't remember what he looked like, but I must have known him. I was there during that time and I too was in E-Flight. I was one of the aircrat electricians assigned to E-Flight back then. I was 20 yrs old. Man, what an experience!

Phil

Phil, was you that young hispanic that came in towards the last at Naha?

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Phil, was you that young hispanic that came in towards the last at Naha?

That would be me. I was just a kid! 20 yrs old in 1970. I was stationed at Naha '69-'71. Aircraft Electrician on the "A" models. Took a guy's place in E-Flight in '70. I left Naha in May '71. I think his name was Fred. He was red-headed and stocky. He always hung around with a guy named Delon. They both left Naha for Ubon, Thailand. I remember Fred had a '57 or '59 Ford at that time also. Those were some great times, weren't they? Takhli, Udorn, an occasional overnight in Bankok, or in Balibagos, outside of Clark AB in the P.I.

Phil

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Air America C-130's and E-Flt

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I worked with Charlie Brewer,Fred Peffer,Randy Odette,Jim and Charlie Burnette,Pops Curfman,Tom"Lurch"Waryha, Chuck Manny.

Mostly the C-130's that Air America were using were"BAILED" or lease from the USAF/21TAS at Naha and then CCK and then at Clark. We were not allowed to devulge any information on our mission or the places we went to. Until the Air Force came out with the information in the book"Airlift in South East Asia and also Air America on their web site talked about E-Flight and what we did that we were finally able to talk about this great job that the C-130's and the crews did.

Being a former member of E-Flight at CCK and Clark the info that Air America Web Site states in the section of C-130E 's of E-Flight is "TRUE" ,down to the 5 Gray aircraft that we had including Tail numbers. Check out the Air America website at http://www.air-america.org and see Dr Leeker's report on Air America C-130 aircraft at this site http://www.utdallas.edu/library/collections/speccoll/Leeker/history/index.html

The Bird Air section that was stated after in this section was mostly of an former Air Force and some former E-Flight personnel that were working for Cambodia relief and evac's.

I am very PROUD what E-Flight and the C-130's did in NorthEast,EastAsia,South and South East Asia.and I was happy to be part of this.

E-Flight Forever

Sincerely

Vince Acquaviva Jr ( E-Flight CCK and Clark )

Edited by EFLTatCCK

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Phil, I think you are talking about Fred Worrell and Delon Wright? I was also in the electric shop that time Sept 68 to June 70 did a lot of TDYs CRB and TSN. Fred and Delon ad a light blue 59 ford we used to take up north of Kadena where the marines were at Camp Swab I think. anyway every Typhoon I was always down country the boys Fred and Delon would (borrow) did I say pawn my stereo for beer money and hole up down in may I say NAMANUI?? Anyway I am Jeff Capwell remember me?

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Phil, I think you are talking about Fred Worrell and Delon Wright? I was also in the electric shop that time Sept 68 to June 70 did a lot of TDYs CRB and TSN. Fred and Delon ad a light blue 59 ford we used to take up north of Kadena where the marines were at Camp Swab I think. anyway every Typhoon I was always down country the boys Fred and Delon would (borrow) did I say pawn my stereo for beer money and hole up down in may I say NAMANUI?? Anyway I am Jeff Capwell remember me?

Hello Jeff, 40 years is a long time and I'm rackin' the brain cells trying to remember you. Somewhere, I have some slides of that time in our lives and I remember a party at TSGT Lucero's house where I took a group shot. Do you remember being at that party? I'm going to find those slides and scan them.

Phil

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That would be me. I was just a kid! 20 yrs old in 1970. I was stationed at Naha '69-'71. Aircraft Electrician on the "A" models. Took a guy's place in E-Flight in '70. I left Naha in May '71. I think his name was Fred. He was red-headed and stocky. He always hung around with a guy named Delon. They both left Naha for Ubon, Thailand. I remember Fred had a '57 or '59 Ford at that time also. Those were some great times, weren't they? Takhli, Udorn, an occasional overnight in Bankok, or in Balibagos, outside of Clark AB in the P.I.

Phil

My memory is suffering Phil. I thought you replaced Roofner (spelling). I roomed with him on many a trip and he was a crazy "sob".

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My memory is suffering Phil. I thought you replaced Roofner (spelling). I roomed with him on many a trip and he was a crazy "sob".

No Gary, It's my memory that's failing! When I read the name Roofner a memory came back of the time when he came up to me and said "Come with me. I want you to meet some people." That was when I became one of the E-Flight crew. I remember the commander telling me that they would do a "background check". Little did I know what that actually meant! A few weeks later, I went with Roofner on my first trip. You're right. Roofner was crazy!

Phil

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do not remember that particular party but I did drink some brews at the beach party we had down by the airport!The next day a bunch of us rotated into CRB!! Remeber night shift run by SSgt Lahon- also guys like the Wilson brothers who weren't related- John F Inman the III- Robert Teal- Alvin Gardner- my CRS is not too bad tonight-Cap

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do not remember that particular party but I did drink some brews at the beach party we had down by the airport!The next day a bunch of us rotated into CRB!! Remeber night shift run by SSgt Lahon- also guys like the Wilson brothers who weren't related- John F Inman the III- Robert Teal- Alvin Gardner- my CRS is not too bad tonight-Cap

Jeff, take a look at the pics I uploaded. You'll see Rusell Davis, Valentio Jimenez, Robert Wilson and Alvin Gardner. I took these in the Elect. shop, way back then.

Phil

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I was in E Flight in 1969 until I blew out my knee and was discharged. It's main role was that of ground support for Air America in Udorn, Thailand. AA crews flew the planes into Laos. As a loadmaster my job was to load the planes so they would fly. Everything was loaded, most of the time, on 8' X 4' sheets of plywood. Then when the reached their destination the plane would just taxi along and the cargo would be pushed out the back unto the ground.

The AA l/m's I met were former Green Berets and Rangers. In an emergency they wanted some one who could jump out to help if necessary and could also fight. Engineers met the returning flights to see how the plane's were running. Pilots talked to the pilots and no offense the Nav.s sat.

They beat you to death with every thing being top secret, over and over again. They stuck me on the phone in the E Fight office within a day or two of being cleared. Phone rang and someone wanted to know where Col. so and so was, Out Flying , I said. He was. When he got back I told him of the call and he wanted to know what my reply was, I told him. I got quite a lecture that day. We didn't tell anyone anything.

In Udorn we were locked inside a compound the whole rotation. No going unto the base proper. Royal Thai troops loaded the cargo onto the pallets in a bldg. in the compound. I was told never to go into that area. Then later my room mate George Patton was given a big pat on the back for being the 1st L/M to go in and see what the troops were doing.

I remember 1 load of napalm bombs we loaded in the plane. Crates were really flimsy wood and stacked on top of each other moved around quite a bit. These had to be off loaded with a fork lift. Almost done and this guy throws a couple of big boxes into the plane. I asked what they were and was told the ignitors for the napalm.

Other missions I did. When the SR 71 came back from it's flight we would take the film cans to Japan where the film was developed. Every time we left Naha as an AF flight were would circle out and come back to land in Kadena as an AA flight. We would stop at the end of the taxiway. Change into jeans and T-shirts. The plane mechanic would hop out and take off the AF insignia which were held on by zeus fittings.

I also went to Japan and picked up 5 conex boxes that filled the cargo bay. Had a talkative Lt. with us who told us we were hauling the new script into Vietnam. When it was mentioned upon landing what we thought the cargo was we all received an interview one on one by a room full of brass. Again more or less threatened if we mentioned a word to anyone. Even as a crew we didn't talk to each other about it.

Picked up a load in Taiwan one time. It was a mess. Thousands of pounds of rice, refrigerators, a small trailer that could be towed behind a jeep full of stuff, Korean passengers. No one spoke English and the plane was extremely nose heavy. Pilot was upset and had a right to be. During the flight I was hauling 100 lb sacks of rice all the way back to the end of the ramp to try and balance it a little. My worst loading job ever.

Landed in Danang all was talking to some spook who told me the goods were for Korean Troops. He said an hour after the goods hit their PX the would be for sale on the black market down town. Korean soldiers supplemented their pay that way.

While in E Flight you never talked to each other about your mission. Now that books have been written more is known. When I left E Flight they put the fear of god into you about talking about the mission.

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Phil, I was in 21st TAS E-flight whenever I was not TDY from Naha. My name is James Motes, and I do remember some names. My Crew Chief was Mike Morbaucher, and Ssgt Dintlemen. Do you remember those names?

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Phil, I was in 21st TAS E-flight whenever I was not TDY from Naha. My name is James Motes, and I do remember some names. My Crew Chief was Mike Morbaucher, and Ssgt Dintlemen. Do you remember those names?

Hi James,

Unfortunately, 40 yrs took it's toll on my memory. I don't recall those names. I was stationed at Naha from '69 to '71 and started E-flight in '70. I was one of the aircraft electricians in the crew.

Phil

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Phil, saw your shop pictures of Gardner and Jimenez--brought back memories! What ever happened to Wright and Worrell? Cap

Hey there!

They left Naha and went to Ubon. I ran across Delon was when my crew was on it's way back to Naha from a stint at either Takhli or Udorn and had stopped there for some reason. I didn't get to see Fred before I left. True to form, Delon hit me up for $20 before we departed. It's interesting, the memories that come back when jogged.

Phil

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I was in the 21st assigned to E flight Jan 68-July 69.I knew John Eggers,he was a real neat guy.There were always rumors what E flight did,but no one would ever confirm them.I heard one of their missions was a "Money run"where they picked lots of dollars (crates of them)and made a milk run to Taiwan,Clark AFB,Viet Nam etc. once a month.Also they were said to fly Vips around.Again,these were all rumors.

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Dan, first of all welcome to the forum--you will like it here!! I met John through his best friend who was my room mate in the 35th. He and Gary Levesque (frog), came from the same base in the states. For some reason I think it was Lockborne (sp) . It could have been Sewart also!!

Anyway, nice having you here,

Ken Carlson

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