Jump to content
Aero Precision provides military aviation aftermarket solutions for c-130
Sign in to follow this  
alanwbaker

Buddy start at Song Be, Vietnam August 15, 1970

Recommended Posts

Must be somethin' about Song Be that brought buddy starts on. Two years after alan's event, damn near to the day, my crew had to do the same thing. Lost, I think, it was #2, was supposed to load a forklift, but I refused it cause it had three flat tires, a broken suspension, and leakin' every fluid it had. Why they wanted it out, i don't know, but it was not safe to load. anyway, runway too short for windmill taxi start, nobody around to fix it, and we were actually considerin' a three engine departure (oh what that would have brought down).anyway a marine c-130 came in so we did the buddie start with out any real problem..My AC told them 'Hey marines, thanks for the BJ." A definite lack of gratitude! LMAO!!!!!!!

load clear

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We did one in '68 using a Marine Herc . . I don't remember which field it was though...

Jim Houston

776TAS '68-'69

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing I remember about Song Be besides taking bladder birds in there was having the engineer trade bottles of whiskey with the supply guys there for almost anything they had. Got lots of combat boots and camo parkas and other cool stuff there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buddy starts were common in 65. We ran out of starters due to many starts in hot conditions.

Flew several missions with no starter on # 1 engine. Buddy start to start the day and refueled with # 1 running. They would not approve three engine T.O.'s or windmill taxi starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Were 3 engine take-offs approved at Cam Rahn Bay in 69 or 70? I am almost sure we did that there after the buddy starts and the wind-mill taxiing failed. I remember we were trying to get back to CCK on 1804 after having the #1 starter canned. I do remember trying the windmill starts, which didn't work, and also remember lining up with another C-130 for a buddy start. I don't think that worked either, but after a long 15 or so days at CRB, and very tired as we crew chiefs were, I probably was about half asleep by the time we were air-born!

Memory just isn't as good as it used to be,

Ken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i was at cam rahn when we had a crew finishing the day with at hop from danang to crb .on approach when they pulled back on the power ,the engine rpm followed the power . they flew it on to the runway and the engines flame out on all 4 .used all the brakes and runway .made the last turn before the water . happened 68 or early 69 .we saw the black marks most of the length of the runway . any body hear that story . what would make the rpm follow the props?jb childers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the OIC of an ALCE det at Utapao in 1981 (must have been summer as it was hot as hell, HA!!) when one of our Herks developed a starter problem. We tried a "buddy" using a P-3. Because P-3 "stinger" would not allow the Herk close enough to the P-3 and the fact that the engines did not line up, the Herk could not get enough RPM to drive the starting sequence.

The 834ALD would not approve a taxi start. So they flew a starter and Mx crew in from Clark. If there ever was a runway you would wish for when doing a taxi start, Utapao would be in the top of the list.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the OIC of an ALCE det at Utapao in 1981

The 834ALD would not approve a taxi start.

I think maybe you mean 1971....not much going on at Utapo during 1981 and

834th was long gone.

I used an ascetlyne(sp) torch one time at Elmondorf on a starter that was wrapped around a mount bolt.

I also still have my starter nut wrench that I have had since 1963 0r 64.

Muff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That no windmill order must not have got to our flight crew.

We did them all over SEA as late as Aug 66.

All of our Hi speed taxis worked. Of Course I was on the "A,s"

Pappy Hayes always said he saw one come in sideways with all four engines caged,

flying on the GTC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Were 3 engine take-offs approved at Cam Rahn Bay in 69 or 70?

Memory just isn't as good as it used to be,

Ken

Ken,

3-engine takeoffs required special approval from Hilda and were only used as a last resort (due to a high probability of crashing). I can only recall one during my year from 1970-1971. But buddy starts and windmill taxi starts were quite routine--we did them frequently.

My memory's not as good as it used to be either, but all those letters to my wife are a great resource for my memoir.

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 834ALD would not approve a taxi start. So they flew a starter and Mx crew in from Clark. If there ever was a runway you would wish for when doing a taxi start, Utapao would be in the top of the list.

Muff,

Each organization had its own rules about buddy starts and windmill taxi starts. In Vietnam those rules were more lax. And yes, Utapao had the ideal runway for a windmill taxi start!

Alan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We tried a "buddy start" at Danang one evening.....no luck. We were empty and headed back to CRB so we took off with 3 turning and 1 at attention. This was late '67 or early '68.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know there are some other ex-Transafrik guys on this board who will verify what I'm saying. 3-engine ferry flights were pretty common in Angola. Of course, we had no dispatchers or command posts to talk to -- we just feathered the bad motor & took off.

I'll tell ya though, a 2-engine takeoff in a 727 on a dirt runway will sure get the pucker-factor up there.

Don R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IT's true, It's ture.

Had a bad starter on #3 started #2 took the starter of the running engine and put on #3 started it and took off. Did this from a B4 stand. Eddie M did it with a ladder one time. Buddy starts off of 727's. Chaining struts up and taking off on 3 mains on the Herk. Flew one from Loki to Nairobi to Mombassa to Luanda on 3 engines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that old -7 engine is a piece, the fuel control especially, if you pull the throttles back too quick and you're on descent it doesnt give the altitude compensator time to adjust very well, and that could cause your flame out, or maybe they lost hydraulic pressure in the prop and pitchlocked it, then when the throttles were brought back rpm is tied to the power so that could cause it, not likely on all four though. yeah i'm still workin '62 models in the desert to this day haha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IT's true, It's ture.

Had a bad starter on #3 started #2 took the starter of the running engine and put on #3 started it and took off. Did this from a B4 stand. Eddie M did it with a ladder one time. Buddy starts off of 727's. Chaining struts up and taking off on 3 mains on the Herk. Flew one from Loki to Nairobi to Mombassa to Luanda on 3 engines.

Thanks, John.

I knew there was someone out there who would back me up! I'll bet you didn't call anyone for permission to make a "3-main takeoff," did ya. Well Brito on HF, maybe, but that doesn't count.

My thoughts on a 3-emgine takeoff are that it's actually a 2-engine takeoff & the 3rd engine is used mainly to keep the airplane going straight as the FE feeds in the power. It winds up with all 3 producing power, but for about the first 1/3rd to 1/2 of the takeoff run, it just 2 engines.

I see from your profile that, like me, you don't even go near airplanes anymore

Don R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the OIC of an ALCE det at Utapao in 1981

The 834ALD would not approve a taxi start.

I think maybe you mean 1971....not much going on at Utapo during 1981 and

834th was long gone.

Muff

Muff,

I'm right. The 834ALD was the Hq for the MAC COMALF for PACAF until that disaster McPeak hit the Air Force. The Marines were on some field exercise and I we were moving the troops from Utapao back to Okinawa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw a buddy start done during the 38TCS' initial ORI at Langley in August 1967. We passed the RI and were TDY to Europe on Operation Sunshine Express 3 weeks later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speaking of three engine takeoffs . . . I was a two-striper at Rhein-Main when the 37th was reactivated. I seem to recall we had a crew (and I want to say this was in Reggio) got permission for a taxi-start, except the engine never really came on speed, and they kept going, anyway. Nobody would have known about it, except they had to brag when they got back to R-M. I think the AC ended up going to CP after that.

That was just about the best three years I had in the AF. The enlisted experience level was tremendous. We got all the old crap birds Pope didn't want, and our maintenance guys and FEs kept 'em going. Damn near everything was waived. It wasn't unusual to get over 100 hours flight time two or three months in a row. Some real characters in that outfit, too (like DC10FE :) ).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

During 1969 I was the Transit Alert honcho at Phu Cat. Herk crews did many buddy starts there. It was easy to tell the crews that had done it before. They would put the nose under the front acft's beavertail and tell the front crew to go to power. Worked almost every time. Within minutes both acft. would be airborn. On the other hand the inexperienced crews were too cautious, afraid to taxi in to position. Buddy starts didn't work well from 100 ft. plus. As Alan Baker states the acft needing the buddy start had to get close, i.e., the radome within touching distance of the tailgate. Watching two experienced air crews buddy start was an eye opening experience for the TA guys as they were all fighter troops and were amazed that such a procedure was possible.

The big drawback of buddy starts was that in some instances it caused engine fod. On the other hand it got crews back to beautiful downtown CRB/TSN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We did buddy starts all of the time in SEA, and windmill taxi starts if the runway was long enough. 3-engine takeoffs required special authorization. When discussing the Vietnam War, it is important to place an event in context. C-130s were involved in Southeast Asia from 1958 on, and there were different controlling agencies. Prior to October, 1966 when 834th AD activated, all troop carrier operations in SEA were under 315th Air Division which was headquartered at Tachikawa. 315th had a TMC (bet most of you guys don't know what a TMC was) in Saigon with detachments from it at various locations. When the 315th Troop Carrier Group activated, a command center was set up under it to control Vietnam operations. After 834th activated, all C-130 ops were still governed by 315th policies but the airplanes and crews were under 834th operational control. 315th inactivated in April 1969 and the C-130 wings transferred to the respective numbered air force in whose are they were based (Fifth for Tachi and Naha, Thirteenth for Clark and CCK.) We did buddy starts in TAC as well as windmill starts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buddy starts were great. Never did one in a Herc, but back when I started on C-119s it was routine and comforting to know that if you could start one engine on one airplane, then you could start the whole squadron.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did a Buddy Start at Mosul in 2005. Did anyone else ever do one in Iraq? I never heard of any others. We got the approval from a non-130 guy and got chewed pretty good when we got back, but the approval was legit. It was actually a little emabarrassing, on an H-3 at the time with a bad APU and the Co-Pilot was supposed to leave an engine running and grabbed all the condition levers and shut them all down instead. No Bleed Air Cart there. We had to get a power cart to cuff the prop and do the whole thing with only battery power but it worked like a champ. We had to get "a jump" from a Guard crew on an E-model that were shaking their heads the whole time...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nam 67-68 talking about taxi starts.

I was Fe,Fm, and Load (3in1) on the C-7A while at Hue I was up in the hatch clearing wing tips for the pilot on our taxi in to drop off about 10 troops when I felt the concussion against my back as a result of a rocket attack near the fuel dump. Tower announced we were under attack and all aircraft expedite takeoff. I went to the back and told everyone" DD attack"

They left me with the bags that I threw off while we were taxiing out. I resumed my hatch position and saw 2 C-130's on the runway taking off with 1 and 4 engs. spooling up, 2 and 3 at max power. Cool manuver that I always held in my mind as a C-130 F.E.

Steve H.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...