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Crew size for C-130


Jpinera
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I am an aspiring writer and am in the middle of a novel where C-130's play a part. I know next to nothing about C-130's not to mention flying in general. I see this is a very technically oriented site so my questions will extermely basic.

Can a two person team fly a C-130 if the only mission is to fly the plane. No payload. Would a pilot and navigator be enough? Could one person fly the plane in an emergency?

Thanks for any information you could provide.

Julio

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In the 60,s it called for a 5 man crew. Pilot, Co pilot, Fe, Nav and Loadmaster. That was what they used on the "A" models.

I think the amount of people changed according to the mission the plane was flying at the time.

Meny times I went with the plane as maintence and helped the loadmaster as needed, also if we had mechanical trouble I would help the FE.

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In the 60,s it called for a 5 man crew. Pilot, Co pilot, Fe, Nav and Loadmaster. That was what they used on the "A" models.

I think the amount of people changed according to the mission the plane was flying at the time.

Meny times I went with the plane as maintence and helped the loadmaster as needed, also if we had mechanical trouble I would help the FE.

Actually, the minimum crew for a C-130 was two pilots and an engineer. Navs and loadmasters were mission-specific. Until about 1963, scanners flew as the fifth member of the crew and loadmasters were in aerial port. 55-130 allowed operations with either two pilots or a pilot and a flight mechanic for wartime emergency (meaning evacuating to a dispersal base in the event of all-out war.) In other words, the answer to Julio's question is "yes." But the second person would have to be either a pilot or a flight engineer, not a navigator.

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As stated before, the -1 calls for a minimum crew of three. Current USAF slicks are required to have a basic crew of five. However, with a waiver, you can fly without the Navigator. We currently fly actual airdrop missions, as well as most passenger and cargo movements with six. We fly with six in the desert. However, JPADS, which is precision airdrop requires a second Navigator (can be a pilot I believe) as a PADS operator. That brings the crew compliment to seven.

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Trying to find the best way to ansewer your quistion, as a loadmaster I thought the reason for the other poistions was to get the loadmaster to and from where he worked. The pilots flew him (no girls back then) from one destanation to another to load or unload the plain. The nav was to make shure they didnt get lost and last but not least the eng. was to make shure the plane started when they were ready to go. of course my memory is fadind with time and I be getting this wrong. But I thought all 5 of the crew was pretty much needed at the time..........................

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In the 60s a crew chief took off by himself from a base in England. He managed to get it airborne and out over the channel but due to flying toward Russia his mission was interupted and he never returned....so I guess for a successful mission you would need a full crew of five unless you have a new J model than the minimum crew would be three....

One last question why in hell would you want to write a book that you have no knowledge of the subject matter? I bet it will not make the NY best seller list.

Muff

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Muff,

Like he said, the C-130 plays a part. I am guessing it is not the focus of the story but rather the setting. Good for him for doing his research and going for his dream. Too many people just settle for mediocrity.

P.S. Half the books on the bestseller list are crap anyway.

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jmitch,

I think you have it all wrong. Being a crew chief you 5 (e-model crews) crew dogs were there to fly me to off station parties, bars and brothels in some real nice and not so nice locations all over the world..

I remember going to Tachi in Dec.65 with 6 Officers and 5 NCO,s and staying on the ramp for 3 days in the snow, while there was a mysterious problem with the radar that none of the shop people could find.

The radar people would come out and work on the plane and I had to wait for one of the officers to come out and tell me the radar still wasn't fixed, then he would disappear for half a day.

They all finally got back with a truck load of packages and the radar was good to go.

I found out it was a shopping trip to Japan for them while I froze my ass off.

The radar shop was pretty pissed also.

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Very few Pilots have the knowledge of a good Flight Engineer, I can count them on one hand, the ones I would trust. Same for the Engineers very very few have the piloting skills and knowledge. Thats why we have the seperate fields.

Pilots don't have to "have the knowledge" of an engineer. Don't forget that the C-130 was one of the LAST airplanes to have a flight mechanic as part of the crew (they changed the name to flight engineer in 1967). SAC did away with flight engineers on bombers starting with the B-47. There hasn't been an airplane certified with a flight engineer by the FAA since the Boeing 747. The reason flight mechanics were included on C-130 crews was because the Air Force intended to operate them into austure areas, not because they thought there had to be a third crewmember in the cockpit. MATS/MAC put engineers on its airplanes because they sometimes carried passengers, and in the 1960s the FAA wanted a third cockpit crewmember. The airlines did away with navigators by the early 1960s. So did MAC on the C-141 and C-5 by the 1980s. The C-130J doesn't need either an engineer or a navigator because it has advanced avionics.

Dash 1 requirements are for NORMAL operations. TAC established minimum crew for EMERGENCY operations in 55-130. MAC set minimum crew for it's airplanes in 55-1. If I remember correctly, Emergency crew for even a C-5 was for either two pilots or one pilot and an engineer.

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In the 60s a crew chief took off by himself from a base in England. He managed to get it airborne and out over the channel but due to flying toward Russia his mission was interupted and he never returned....so I guess for a successful mission you would need a full crew of five unless you have a new J model than the minimum crew would be three....

One last question why in hell would you want to write a book that you have no knowledge of the subject matter? I bet it will not make the NY best seller list.

Muff

Is there another thread that mentions the crew chief that stole the C-130?

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Trying to find the best way to ansewer your quistion, as a loadmaster I thought the reason for the other poistions was to get the loadmaster to and from where he worked. The pilots flew him (no girls back than) from one destanation to another to load or unload the plain. The nav was to make shure they didnt get lost and last but not least the eng. was to make shure the plane started when they were ready to go. of course my memory is fadind with time and I be getting this wrong. But I thought all 5 of the crew was pretty much needed at the time..........................

I got the same story from the ADAF recruiter about Boom Operators. Then again the same recruiter told me that Life Support could tell officers what to do. (He failed to mention being in a classroom environment)

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Yes this has been discussed here many times on the old forum. I collected a bunch of info on the event and created a Yahoo group to hold what I have. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/637789/

Did you ever here of the story of the Life Support guy that lost it on a night shift, and popped every parachute, every raft, and every life preserver in the shop? Or the F-4 jocks that flew under the London Bridge?

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If he needs a cargo plane and minimum of two crew - would a Provider work?

The C-123 carried the same crew as a C-130, except they didn't always carry a navigator and the engineers were originally the crew chiefs. But, then again, the engineers were the crew chiefs on C-130s for at least the first three or four years of operations.

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Only who don’t believe that one member can fly the plane should read this…:

A serviceable C-130 parked on a strip at a remote Caribbean island, flying crew was not expected to have any mission, so and to enjoy a “Caribbean night activity†all the crew- except the pilot-were involved in taking local tuff drink in which they reached a point of not recognizing head from foot….(off topic:- That is why military stuff ordered to wear head caps,.. just to help in such cases…)

Early morning broadcast declared hurricane will sweep off the island within 6 hrs, captain try to wake-up his crew he failed, so and by the help of local he managed to take them as a “loadâ€.

5 crew including LM were strapped on the cargo floor with 10,000 lb chains. (off topic:- Captain extra measure of safety)

4hrs left, sky getting dark, local people start gathering asking to go, captain started the APU switched on HF box calling “OPS†requesting permission to evacuate the island with maximum pax. And asking permission to fly the plane alone, halve an hour later answer from GHQ was; for passengers “visa†is must, regarding flying the plane alone, idiXXXXXXXt…son of xx xbook limit…..

HF switched Off, captain ask all to get inside, chocks removed, doors closed, all overhead ungraded switches “forwardâ€/“on lineâ€, hydraulic panel set, parking brake set, engines on speed, taxing, take off, climb, and cruise.

Level 210, captain turned to the right seat talking to a native old women with 3 months baby on her chest: “Never flown smooth and quite mission such this; keep them tied on the chains".

Closer to home border he switched on radio and starts giving standard call.

Brothers this is a “novelâ€; where is the harm to fly it alone???!!

Note: All rights reserved regardless of spelling, grammar, and structure mistakes.:)

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I believe I remember hearing or reading a story about a Vietnamese aircrew member that single-handedly stole one of the Sout Vietnamese C-130's to rescue his family when the south was falling to the north. It's been a while since I heard it, so I'm not sure about details or whether or not my mind is just playing tricks on me.

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Only who don’t believe that one member can fly the plane should read this…:

A serviceable C-130 parked on a strip at a remote Caribbean island, flying crew was not expected to have any mission, so and to enjoy a “Caribbean night activity” all the crew- except the pilot-were involved in taking local tuff drink in which they reached a point of not recognizing head from foot….(off topic:- That is why military stuff ordered to wear head caps,.. just to help in such cases…)

Early morning broadcast declared hurricane will sweep off the island within 6 hrs, captain try to wake-up his crew he failed, so and by the help of local he managed to take them as a “load”.

5 crew including LM were strapped on the cargo floor with 10,000 lb chains. (off topic:- Captain extra measure of safety)

4hrs left, sky getting dark, local people start gathering asking to go, captain started the APU switched on HF box calling “OPS” requesting permission to evacuate the island with maximum pax. And asking permission to fly the plane alone, halve an hour later answer from GHQ was; for passengers “visa” is must, regarding flying the plane alone, idiXXXXXXXt…son of xx xbook limit…..

HF switched Off, captain ask all to get inside, chocks removed, doors closed, all overhead ungraded switches “forward”/“on line”, hydraulic panel set, parking brake set, engines on speed, taxing, take off, climb, and cruise.

Level 210, captain turned to the right seat talking to a native old women with 3 months baby on her chest: “Never flown smooth and quite mission such this; keep them tied on the chains".

Closer to home border he switched on radio and starts giving standard call.

Brothers this is a “novel”; where is the harm to fly it alone???!!

Note: All rights reserved regardless of spelling, grammar, and structure mistakes.:)

I am the person who posted the question. First of all you guys are extremely knowlegeable about the topic and secondly - you are a riot. Funny stuff. Thanks for the info, I will take a little literary license and have two pilots fly the plane. As for why I am writing an novel that includes something I know nothing about -- its needed to make the story work. Its about a wealthy businessman who develops a substance that weakens hurricanes when dropped along the eyewall of a storm. It makes for some good action scenes as he flies through the hurricane, which is why I chose the C-130 since I understand it is/was used by the Hurricane Hunters of the 53rd Weather Reconnaissance Squadron of the Air Force Reserves to monitor the storms. The working title is "Eyewall" and I hope to complete the novel by the end of the year. If you want to read the work in process just google "Julio Pinera Eyewall" and tell me what you think. When I am done I will have someone with some flying knowledge give it a read for reasonableness (like a techincal advisor). Thanks again, I hope you will let me come back from time to time and ask some questions. Regards Julio

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