cheema Posted December 4, 2010 Share Posted December 4, 2010 people who have done a buddy start plus year mentioning place is optional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Wilson Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 I have done (and received) quite a number of buddy starts/windmill taxi starts starting in Desert Storm/Desert Shield (Aug 90 to March 91) then again doing Sarajavo missions (June or July 92 to Dec 92) What ya need to know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowball Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 In 1971 I was with a crew that did a buddy start in Na Trang. I was a Crew Chief and the A/C requested that I sit on the rear ramp on head set and let him know when the aircraft behind us had rotation. We threw up so much dust and trash in the air that I couldn't even see the aircraft. Regardless of the dirt, the buddy start worked out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheema Posted December 5, 2010 Author Share Posted December 5, 2010 Did you guys kept the text book distance i.e; 10 feet, I suppose. Cause I herd that you actually have to put your nose under the tail of your buddy to get a successful start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 people who have done a buddy start plus year mentioning place is optional. 80s, Korea, Philippines; get the airplane going in time to meet ORI mission closure; training ex-141 FEs who hadn't gotten complete phase II tng or needed to see a buddy start for some reason. Nothing unsafe about a buddy start if you do all the steps in the right sequence and you have a clean runup area. I think FODs the biggest worry. "Put your nose under the tail"? No! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in WV Posted December 5, 2010 Share Posted December 5, 2010 Gave one at Dhahran Sauidi Arabia in 90 or 91 for an AD crew. No FOD check and the check list was pretty well not followed IIRC. They just taxied up behind us and we ran up until they started. That's the way they wanted it and I figued as long as they didn't ram up it was their bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wukong Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 I was in charge of an ALCE deployed to Utapao in 1982 when we tried to buddy start a C-130 with a Navy P-3. Because of the "Stinger" on the P-3, the Herk could not get sufficiently close to bring the engine rpm up enough to get a start. The appropriate authority would not authorize a windmill taxi start, so they flew another in with parts to fix the problem. I've always wondered why the disapproval of the windmill start at Utapao. Your would be hard pressed to find a larger or longer runway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokey Posted December 6, 2010 Share Posted December 6, 2010 1968 in Da Nang VN we helped an A model with a buddy start. I tried to put up a picture but it wouldn't show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec13fe Posted December 7, 2010 Share Posted December 7, 2010 I've done a few in the 70's If I remember right it was part of the AC upgrade program in TAC or it may have been a Dyess thing. Did one for real in Korea in 77 or 78 during Team Spirit. Blow a lot of snow around but we got the engine started. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Wilson Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Did you guys kept the text book distance i.e; 10 feet, I suppose. Cause I herd that you actually have to put your nose under the tail of your buddy to get a successful start. I dont think we had to get any closer than 10 feet but I do remember that we usually had to change the offset to get it to work right, but its been quite a while so I cant guarantee which way the offset was altered for the "startee" I've always wondered why the disapproval of the windmill start at Utapao. Your would be hard pressed to find a larger or longer runway. Hell, I've had the squadron commander at the 37th run us right off the airfield at Lar airstation in W. Germany (think it was a Canadian base) doing his windmill taxi starts for his instructor check or upgrade, cant remember which.That runway had pleanty of space, unfortunately the commander had pleanty of space between his ears as well; at least he got the good ol RIF later on LOL. Its really shameful that MAC er AMC cut out the requirement for windmill taxi starts, buddy starts except in the sim. Buddy starts are about as safe as can be if you follow the checklist; now a windmill taxi start on an outboard (or even an inboard sometimes) will sort out the pilots from the morons pretty damn quick. Regardless that's one procedure you really really want to have a pilot experienced with REAL and successful windmill starts (not a lame simulation which isn't very realistic). AFSOC was still doing them on the aircraft when I retired, dont know if they still do or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkuest Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 I've seen windmill starts at the schoolhouse about 5 to 6 years ago, but haven't seen one since. Heard it takes Majcom approval now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herkpilot Posted December 11, 2010 Share Posted December 11, 2010 Dan Yes AFSOC still does Windmill Taxi Starts for practice/pilot pro/upgrades. cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEFEGeorge Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 When I first started at the school house in '76 we taught windmill taxi starts, cruise engine shutdowns, and approach to stalls. But that was in a time long ago and in a land far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzoomie32065 Posted December 13, 2010 Share Posted December 13, 2010 We landed at Pleiku very late on New Years Eve 65. Had 5 pallets of WP on board so they put us on the taxiway out near the runway to wait for a fork lift. Soon trip flares started going off and we could see figures running around. The front end got 1&2 started and we started to taxi. # 3 came on line as we took the runway and #4 was online before we broke ground and went back to TSN. Found out the perimiter security got chewed out for celebrating New Years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith130 Posted December 14, 2010 Share Posted December 14, 2010 When I was an IP in the Instructor School (mid-90s), we did windmills all the time. We actually had the upgrading IP do them from the right seat. They're fairly safe if you know what you're doing and everyone understands their duties. The hardest part when doing it from the right seat is knowing when you can safely let the left seater come off nose wheel steering. I had a couple of the upgrade IPs have me come off the nose wheel way too early. The look on their face was priceless when they figured out they did not have control of the aircraft. Needless to say, I had to take over real quick when that happened. -Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donwon Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 We did windmill taxi starts quiet often in SEA while I was there. Never heard of a buddy start till now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Barnes Posted December 15, 2010 Share Posted December 15, 2010 We did a buddy start at a really small field with a short runway somewhere up north of Danang in late 71 or 72. The number 2 starter went out and I rembered an instructor at Little Rock explaning how a buddy start worked. I was the only one on the plane who had even heard of doing that to get an engine running. I asked the AC to get on the radio and see if there was a C-130 in the area that could come give us a blow start, we had a plane on the ground within 20 minutes. They backed up to us with our #2 engine between their #1 and #2, it worked great and we were out of there before dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayj Posted December 16, 2010 Share Posted December 16, 2010 My first buddy start nobody on the crew knew how , so we used the airstart procedure and it worked well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt.crewchief Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Once when we were trying to leave CRB to go back home to CCK, we were trying to leave without a starter. It seemed like we were there for hours trying to get started. I don't think anybody knew how to do a buddy start then either as we tried. Finally, after several attempts at windmill taxi starts we finally made it and went home!! I remember doing that later several times, with much better success!! Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobCCK Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Number three engine sheared a starter shaft. We were finally able to get it up speed to catch. Both acft bounced around quite a bit when the front one is at full power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve haigler Posted December 17, 2010 Share Posted December 17, 2010 Received a buddy start at camp mccoy A-Mod C-130 early eighties, #4 eng. Easier on an otbd. eng on A-mod because you're not spinning an A/C gen. on our particular airplanes. Worked as advertised. The pilot used some technique with milking the throttle to change blade angle and eng started nicely. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith130 Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 It was quite common for us to put #3 "on the cuff" when we landed at a field without support. That way you had one of the main requirements for a buddy start met if you were to lose your GTC or APU. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEFEGeorge Posted December 20, 2010 Share Posted December 20, 2010 Pretty much anytime we shut down at an airfield with no support, I'd put one on the cuff before turning off the GTC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanwbaker Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Cheema, I did buddy starts and windmill taxi starts routinely in Vietnam. FOD was not a problem. As for spacing between aircraft, the recommended separation will eventually do the job, assuming you've got time for multiple attempts. On the other hand, if the start has to work the first time, get closer. For places, dates, and details see: http://vietnamairlift.com/phnompenh.html http://vietnamairlift.com/mechanical.html http://vietnamairlift.com/windmilltaxi.html Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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