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tinwhistle

VA Claims Update

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Fantastic Giz. I'm happy for you! As for me.....After having received a letter from Randolph dated 15 May 2013 stating they received my application for correction of military records, I have heard......ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. The letter stated the review process "may exceed 90 days to complete" but would advise me when the application was complete and sent to AFBCMR (Andrews AFB, Md). I think it may be time for me to write them and let them know I'm not dead yet.

I recently read an article by Sam McGowan in Air Force Magazine (Oct 2012) titled The Hercules of An Loc that helps explain why the mission from Langley to SEA took place in the April/May 1972 timeframe and how I came to be in VN. I may need to get permission to use the material as a supplement to my claim as it is copyrighted. But........

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Sparks, I'm pretty sure that the reason y'all ferried over our planes was because many of their An Loc planes were all

shot up.

Pat Wylie

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Sparks, I'm pretty sure that the reason y'all ferried over our planes was because many of their An Loc planes were all

shot up.

Pat Wylie

Pat, the gaggle Sparks is referring to was just before the 36th deployed to CCK.We were transferring an F-4 bunch out of Holloman to Takli. The plane I had was taken to replace the downed one, but I can't remember if the other one came back or not, Bob Daly was on that one I think. Originally, we were to bring the planes back, if I remember or was informed correctly. My crew, actually a double crew, hung around CCK for I think about a week or more, then was sent home, and then came back a week or so later. we came back contract/commercial. Because we were there on TDY orders for the fighter transfer, we could not stay. we had to go back home and pass go again. Yessir, military intelligence!

Giz

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My problem is that as an A1C who volunteered for any mission/TDY I could get, I was never in the know about what, why or where. I just got into the back of the airplane and fixed it when it broke. When that gagle (as Giz so aptly describes) got to the Philippines, I got commandeered to their Electric shop. From there came a request from TSN to send Electrical Tech support and once again, I volunteered to go. During the 40 days I was there, I worked the 6p-6a shift 6 days/week. I can tell you, there was a war going on at the time because I frequently saw Illumination Flairs and heard and felt large guns sending outgoing shells. It is only with the dim illumination of hindsight and history that I've come to the conclusion that the siege of An Loc played a role in the reason for my being at TSN at that time. Like you Giz, I was sent back to Langly on a commercial aircraft in civilian clothes. Funny but true: Langley had no idea where I was and actually thought I had gone AWOL..he he he

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My problem is that as an A1C who volunteered for any mission/TDY I could get, I was never in the know about what, why or where. I just got into the back of the airplane and fixed it when it broke. When that gagle (as Giz so aptly describes) got to the Philippines, I got commandeered to their Electric shop. From there came a request from TSN to send Electrical Tech support and once again, I volunteered to go. During the 40 days I was there, I worked the 6p-6a shift 6 days/week. I can tell you, there was a war going on at the time because I frequently saw Illumination Flairs and heard and felt large guns sending outgoing shells. It is only with the dim illumination of hindsight and history that I've come to the conclusion that the siege of An Loc played a role in the reason for my being at TSN at that time. Like you Giz, I was sent back to Langly on a commercial aircraft in civilian clothes. Funny but true: Langley had no idea where I was and actually thought I had gone AWOL..he he he

I wonder if all the aircraft followed the same route. sparks. Best I can recall,my plane went from Langley to Holloman, and then to Hickam, where we stayed for, I think two for , don't know why, three days, then from Hickam to Guam, where we refueled, got food, etc, then from Guam to Takli, where we off-loaded, then, and I can't remember, but it seems like we left as soon as we had offloaded and gassed up, and went to CCK, then, I THINK, by train to Taipei, and commercial back......

I also remember, I guess it was March or so of '71, we ferried a plane to CCK from Langley. First plane we took out developed a tailpipe fire in #2 which was a little exciting, but that's a different story..........

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Giz and all,

I was AC on the other one. It was 63-7783. We left Langley on May 10 and got to CCK on May 13.

Kurt Schumacher was one of the CP's, Rufus Bussey was FE, George Simons was Nav, Bad News Barnes was one of the LM's.

Don't remember the other CP and I think Ike Williams was the ILM

Bad News fell asleep in the Langley Fire station, it was around 3 in the AM. We didn't know where he was so we left without him. He got on the other aircraft and caught up at Hickam.

I remember we went to Holloman, McClellan, Hickam, Clark, Takhli and CCK. I think there were a few other stops. We flew 59.4 hours in 4 days. They took our airplane at CCK because so many CCK birds were shot up or had big maintenance problems. I remember Reed Mulkey who was in CCK maintenance at the time showing all the grounded aircraft. Not including 4 lost at An Loc.

They kept us at CCK and we went out to our aircraft, still thinking it was our aircraft, and they had cut the lock off the crew door and took it in country, without telling us. Col Hines decided to fly us home commercial, Northwest Airlines. The 36th guys and George turned around and went right back with the 36th's aircraft. We, the 37th, went back to CCK on 141's in November for 4 months and flew the 36th birds back. By some quirk, I flew home 63-7783

Bob

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Best I recall, we went from Langley to some base in California. From there to Hawaii (maybe a day or two) from there to Wake Island, to Guam, then the PI. From the PI, I went to TSN. Never been to CCK. On the way out, I caught a c130 that made a circuit to NKP and another base in Thailand (the name escapes me). Then to Taipei then commercial to Hawaii where I was frisked by Customs (another story) and then on to Langley.

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I am sitting at my sons bedside in Miami. My wife who is currently at home in Crestview sends me a picture of an envelope I got in the mail today from the Air Force Review Boards Office, Randolph AFB, Tx. She later sends me pictures of the six page report regarding my request for correction of military records. Without boring you all with the details I'll quote the final paragraph.

"Based on the documentation presented by the applicant combined with information from his official military records, it is more likely than not the applicant served in Vietnam in 1972, and therefore award of the Vietnam Service Medal with one bronze service star is appropriate."

After all this time my Vietnam service has been officially recognized! All I can say is WOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

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After 41 years 8 months and encouragement from my friends here, I have finally got confirmation of the elusive "boots on the ground" Thanks all but especially Paul, Jerry, Chris and Bob. There is a goldmine of information and friendship on this site..I cant thank you all enough

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After 41 years 8 months and encouragement from my friends here, I have finally got confirmation of the elusive "boots on the ground" Thanks all but especially Paul, Jerry, Chris and Bob. There is a goldmine of information and friendship on this site..I cant thank you all enough

We ain't called brothers for nothin'!!!!!!! But now I gotta send off a 180 or whatever it is, because I don't have the campaign star for my VSM on my records. Yeah, I know it is a trivial thing, but still......................

Giz

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Yeah..Im not real sure about why the bronze service star. Only thing I can think of is that my DD214 from 1995 had the VSM listed as one of my medals. Since Randolph is correcting my original DD214 from 1974 and adding the VSM, maybe they think I got two separate awards? (I had two separate periods of service thus two DD214's) Only thing I can figure. I know I got a bronze service star on my NDSM for two separate awards.

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They are campaign stars, I think there are five,I may be wrong. Ours would be for the Easter Offensive campaign. We have some guys here in the VVA chapter that have three, or so.

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Sparks

Been having some problems with PM from here, but I did get one message, the one with the information I was looking for, thanks.

Congratulations on (finally) becoming a Vietnam War Veteran!!!!!! One more battle won! I hope that the successful outcomes that you and giz have recently achieved act as the catalyst for all the rest of the guys to keep on fighting!! I used to feel somewhat embarrassed over my on going dispute with the VA, but no longer. It is the insistence of each individual for recognition that paves the way for those coming up. Good work!!!!!!!!

Welcome Home Brother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Edited by tinwhistle

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Vietnam Advisory Campaign[a] 15 March 1962 7 March 1965

Vietnam Defense Campaign[a] 8 March 1965 24 December 1965

Vietnam Counteroffensive.[a] 25 December 1965 30 June 1966

Vietnam Counteroffensive Phase II[a] 1 July 1966 31 May 1967

Vietnam Counteroffensive Phase III[a] 1 June 1967 29 January 1968

Tet Counteroffensive[a] 30 January 1968 1 April 1968

Vietnam Counteroffensive Phase IV[a] 2 April 1968 30 June 1968

Vietnam Counteroffensive Phase V[a] 1 July 1968 1 November 1968

Vietnam Counteroffensive Phase VI[a] 2 November 1968 22 February 1969

Tet 69 Counteroffensive[a] 23 February 1969 8 June 1969

Vietnam Summer-Fall 1969[a] 9 June 1969 31 October 1969

Vietnam Winter-Spring 1970[a] 1 November 1969 30 April 1970

Sanctuary Counteroffensive[a] 1 May 1970 30 June 1970

Vietnam Counteroffensive Phase VII[a] 1 July 1970 30 June 1971

Consolidation I[a] 1 July 1971 30 November 1971

Consolidation II[a] 1 December 1971 29 March 1972

Vietnam Cease-fire[a] 30 March 1972 28 January 1973

Operation Frequent Wind[a] (USN USMC USAF only) 29 April 1975 30 April 1975

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Damn, I miscalculated on that number didn't I? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, no wonder I was always out of CG limits!!!!!! I do remember this now. Okay, here's one..................How are the number of stars on a NDSM, like Sparks, calculated???? I know that it has something to do with service that covers both periods of time when the medal was being awarded and not, but can't find anything that I can make sense of. Actually, I have seen very few stars on the NDSM, some from Korea-Nam vets and so on.....I think there was a time period between Nam and desert storm that it was not awrded, but not sure........

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Thanks Chris, Giz, Bob et al. I think the bronze star on my NDSM represents the award from the Vietnam era and a separate award for Desert Shield/Storm. ps Hows the weather in Anchorage SEFEGeorge?

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Thanks Chris, Giz, Bob et al. I think the bronze star on my NDSM represents the award from the Vietnam era and a separate award for Desert Shield/Storm. ps Hows the weather in Anchorage SEFEGeorge?

here's what I found, for anyone interested, there are four periods of eligibility for the NDSM. I think a lot of folks thought it was awarded automatically, but that is not the case.. the first period runs the Korean War period, June 27, 1950 to July 27, 1954. It was not awarded again until the Vietnam time period January 1, 1961 to august 14, 1974. It then was discontinued again until the Persian Gulf War, August 2, 1990 to November 30, 1995, then another period in which it was not awarded until the Global War on Terrorism, September 11, 2001 'til the present. The awarding follows these guidelines, service in any one period qualifies the member for the medal and unadorned ribbon. service in addition award periods are indicated by the authorization of stars on the ribbon.

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How did you get your VSM with stars? Did you get them recently or were you awarded them years ago?

Well, in my case, I never got any of my awards while I was on active duty, had actually plain forgot, so maybe six years or more, i tried and tried and finally got them through my senator's office, BUT all I got was the VSM and the ribbon itself. no star, my record doesn't show it. I don;t know why,as an aside, I sent a request in for any unit citations I might have been eligible for. damned if I didn't get an AFOU ribbon with an oak leaf cluster, because the 36th had been awarded two AFOU citations while I was assigned to them. So I guess most of us have no real idea what all we may be entitled to without a specific search request, and even that may not be complete. that's why I'm going to request a 214 correction to get my campaign star for ceasefire, or as we called it the Easter, campaign

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