tinyclark Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Anyone know why the K letter was chosen to designate the H-3 tails for the -1 book, 1C-130(K)H-1? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaprad Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Been asking that myself for a few years. Always wondered why it wasn't 1C-130H3-1. I'm guessing there's something in the numbering of TO's that they can't use a number there, they picked K since the brits were already using it. Odd's are I doubt we'd come out with a K-Model after them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbob Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 I was around when it came out that way and I'm pretty sure I heard why but too many years gone by now and can't remember any specifics. I do remember when the 50th picked up their first H3. Lockheed gave them a regular H -1 and said here ya go, they're pretty much the same thing. lol Same with Cheyenne. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaprad Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Well they are the same, I mean two wings, four engines and six tires. That's all the important stuff. Right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith130 Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 What I remember is the H3 initially used the generic 1C-130H-1. H3 crews were screaming because their -1s with all the changes and supplements needed for the H3 required at least 2 large binders. It was late 1995 or 1996 when the 1C-130(K)H-1 was finally released. The first Js had been produced by that time, so the next letter in the C-130 -1 lineage would naturally be K. My guess Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 From TO 00-5-18 Tech Order Numbering Chapter 4: "" 4.2.2 GROUP TWO. Group two contains two or three parts that incorporate the aircraft model number; the modified aircraft mission (in parentheses) if applicable; and aircraft production series if required. 4.2.2.1 Part one contains one or more numeric characters identifying the aircraft model. 4.2.2.2 If part two is an alpha character in parentheses, it identifies a modified aircraft mission. If the modified mission is not applicable, the aircraft production series identifier described in part three follows the aircraft model number. The following is a listing of modified aircraft mission identifiers outlined in AFJI 16-401: Table 4-2. Modified Mission and Status Designators A - Attack H - Search/Rescue/ Q - Drone V - Staff MedEvac C - Cargo/Transport K - Tanker R - Reconnaissance W - Weather D - Director L - Observation* T - Trainer X - Experimental E - Special Electronic M - Multi-Mission U - Utility Y - Prototype Installation F - Fighter P - Patrol * L used in TO System to prevent confusion of O and 0. 4.2.2.3 Part three is an alpha character indicating the aircraft production series. The first series manufactured is identified with the alpha A, the second series with the alpha B, continuing through the alphabet. "" According to this 00-5, the (K) would indicate this Tech order dealt with, or included, C-130 H's with tanker mission modifications. Check the -1 in question and see if there isn't a separate section or some verbiage detailing a tanker mission configuration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaprad Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 It's not a tanker. There's just so much different on a H3 than a H2 that they needed a new book. Though the J model idea is a good one, never thought about that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 7, 2010 Author Share Posted October 7, 2010 There are only a couple H3s that are set up to give fuel that I know of, the (H)Ns at Kulis. They may have their own manual, I don't know. That may be the reason for it Jim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 I hate to be a stickler, but there is a systematic rhyme and reason to Air Force Tech Order numbering. YOU GUYS KNOW THAT, or should. And TO 00-5-18 establishes that Rhyme and reason. The K is in parenthesis. That's a Mission, not Model, designator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 7, 2010 Share Posted October 7, 2010 TANKER TECH: Boeing's FWB office designs refueling plane for Japanese Posted on: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 13:03:26 EDT Symbols: KWHIY Email to friend Print Add This RSS Feed Font size: A A A Apr 25, 2010 (Northwest Florida Daily News - McClatchy-Tribune Information Services via COMTEX) -- FORT WALTON BEACH -- A new fuel tanker aircraft designed and engineered at the local Boeing office was recently completed and delivered to the Japan Air Self-Defense Forces. Boeing Fort Walton Beach partnered with Kawasaki Heavy Industries and Cobham Mission Systems to convert a C-130H transport aircraft into a flying refueling station for the Japanese military. The aircraft was delivered to Japan on Feb. 25 and has been undergoing testing since then. "These customers, the Japan Air Self-Defense Forces, they're very particular," said Clarence McDonald, manager of the tanker program at Boeing Fort Walton Beach. "They very much color within the lines, but they also take a very high stock in partnerships and having a teamplay approach to a program. I think we learned a lot in that. I think we were successful in fostering that relationship with those new customers. Those are the things we hope will carry on and allow us to be successful in other areas with this customer down the road." The project got its start with work Boeing Fort Walton Beach completed for the Air Force Special Operations Command at Hurlburt Field. Boeing was contracted to convert 20 of the Air Force's C-130Hs into refueling tankers. The operative words in this article are "C-130H", "convert", and "tanker". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 (edited) Seriously, we don't even know what H model that was. The front cover of the -1 shows the same serial numbers that the H-2-14 covers for the wiring diagrams. The only H3 models that have refueling pods are the HC-130(H)Ns, 93-2104 & 2106, at Kulis, which are also covered in the H-2-14. I doubt they wrote the book for two airplanes. There is already a 1C-130(H)H-1. The Air Force doesn't own any KCs, that's the Marines and Navy. God help us if there are mistakes in the T.O.s, that would never happen. First pub date for the (K)H-1 is 19981001. Edited October 8, 2010 by tinyclark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Aren't 2104 and 2106 Kulis's search and rescue assets? That would explain the (H) designating the S&R mission set as per Table 4-2 of the 00-5-18. And God knows, aside from the Ten Commandments, Air Force Tech Data is the only other perfect, mistake free, written word on the planet! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 8, 2010 Author Share Posted October 8, 2010 Yes, they are, and the H actually stands for humanitarian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 8, 2010 Share Posted October 8, 2010 Humanitarian ? Where in the heck did that come from? Now I know you're messing with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 No I am not, that's what it stands for. That's why the SAR H-60 is the HH-60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Alright, the original question was: Anyone know why the K letter was chosen to designate the H-3 tails for the -1 book, 1C-130(K)H-1? While guessing and hypothesizing may be fun, the right answer can be found in the governing directive which is T.O 00-5-18 Technical Order Numbering System currently dated 1 April 2010. Chapter 4, paragraph 4.2.2.2 Table 4-2. You can find in the QA office or download it from Tinker pubs site. ALL Air Force Tech Order numbering is established from it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Copied from Globalsecurity.org Another upgrade program modifies MC-130H aircraft to add aerial refueling capability, internal fuel tanks and enlarged paratroop door window. The modification provides plumbing and Operational Flight Program (OFP) update. The MC-130H Aerial Refueling System Pod project is evaluating an advanced aerial refueling capability to the MC-130H Combat Talon II. Manufactured by Flight Refuelling, Ltd. of the United Kingdom, the system provides a wing-mounted hose and drogue aerial refueling pod capable of meeting USSOCOM requirements. Special Operations Forces rotary wing aircraft do not have enough refueling support to meet mission requirements. This system is a pre-planned product improvement envisioned for the MC-130H to meet this shortfall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 Alright, the original question was: While guessing and hypothesizing may be fun, the right answer can be found in the governing directive which is T.O 00-5-18 Technical Order Numbering System currently dated 1 April 2010. Chapter 4, paragraph 4.2.2.2 Table 4-2. You can find in the QA office or download it from Tinker pubs site. ALL Air Force Tech Order numbering is established from it. I don't really care what the book says. I believe the K manual incorporated the MCAWS panel and some other stuff not in previous manuals, before any of them were tankers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spectre623 Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Jerry your thinking is correct as per the "book" .When I was in Rescue 1970-73 the H in HC-130 H,P,N stood for "rescue" "C" was cargo, 130, according to the MDS T.O.s we used then. Our HH-3s, 43s and 53's were "rescue" choppers. The first H ment rescue and the second H ment helo as per the T.O. Course that could all be different as I have been retired since 2003. Anything can be changed if you have enough horsepower, just look at how Kennedy mispoke and the USAF redsignated the RS-71 into the SR-71 just so as not to embarrass him. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I don't really care what the book says. I believe the K manual incorporated the MCAWS panel and some other stuff not in previous manuals, before any of them were tankers. If you don't care what the book says then there is no use arguing, or explaining, the point. Let's just leave it a WAG then or better yet, let's call it what you think it should be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Anyone know why the K letter was chosen to designate the H-3 tails for the -1 book, 1C-130(K)H-1? Are the maintenance TOs (K)H also? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 12, 2010 Author Share Posted October 12, 2010 No, they are not. The Navy T.O.s are, I believe. I'd have to check the site in the morning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaprad Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Are the maintenance TOs (K)H also? H3's use standard H model Maintenance manuals. That's why most of them have MACAWS stuff in them. I'm surprised no one from Charlotte or any other H3 bases have chimed in on this one. I'll ask around when I go back to work tonight and see if anyone knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 15, 2010 Share Posted October 15, 2010 For some reason this thread drew my interest, so I decided to ping some contacts. From the feedback I received, everyone was on the right track. For what it is worth, the results from my inquires are below. Para-phrased from reliable sources: In 1993 changes were made to the basic H model C-130. Although these aircraft were not changed enough to warrant a model change and had no unique mission requirements (tanker, etc,) it was determined that a -1 specific to these later aircraft (with MACAWS) should be published. It was designated 1C-130(K)H-1. In addition to its use to identify a modified aircraft mission the USAF sometimes uses part two of the TO number to track specific changes to their TOs (1C-130(Z)A-1, Egyptian AF TO.) Seems the AF used a work around of sorts to accommodate a unique situation. So why was (K) used? I have no idea. I would guess that (K) was chosen because AF uses (H) for its tankers, thus K was available and not likely to be used otherwise. Lastly, per TO 00-5-18 H designates Search/Rescue/Med Evac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 18, 2010 Author Share Posted October 18, 2010 I wish I could remember where I saw the Humanitarian explanation, but I can't. I thought it was in AFI16-401, A/C designation, but no luck. The original HC-130B models flew on two engines once they reached the search area and had plexiglass panels for the paratroop doors, according to my Lockheed C-130 guide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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