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HEY GREG HERKPFE


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Greg,

I\'ve noticed in that very handsome photo of yourself that you\'re wearing only two stripes on your epauletts. In all the companies I\'ve ever worked for, the PFE wore three bars whilst the load & ground engineer wore two. Do you remember what airplane you were on or who you worked for when you took that photo? Just curious.

Don R.

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Don,

That is an interesting question. In the past, history has dictated that a PFE wore two thick gold or silver strips and Second Officers (Pilots) wore three thick gold or silver strips.

While the International Brotherhood of Flight Engineers Union represented PFE\'s at PanAm, TWA and many other majors had them wear two strips, ALPA representing the Pilots and Second Officers wanted them to wear three strips. During the 60\'s and early 70\'s you still saw PFE\'s at the majors wearing two strips. In fact when TWA did away with the PFE, they allowed qualified PFE\'s to upgrade to First Officers but ALPA made them to have small red piping around their gold strips. They were called Candy Strippers and really looked down upon by ALPA as they by bypassed the union seniority.

Now to get back to your question. When I was at Evergreen on B727 and DC-8 in the mid-80\'s, we had a choice of wearing two or three silver strips. Then when I was a PFE at ATA on the B727 and L1011, we wore two gold strips and we were true PFE\'s as any FE hired in late 90\'s and early 2000 was required to sign an agreement that they waved the right to upgrade to First Officer. During that time we also switched unions from Teamsters to ALPA. At that point the union said we could wear two or three strips and the union fought to have the agreements thrown out so that the PFE\'s could upgrade...funny how the union stepped up to support the upgrading of PFE\'s after we blocked the 60 year old Captains from bumping back to the FE seat...we just had to learn to play nice together.

I wear two or three..just depends on what I pull out. I free lance as a PFE on Herks now so there are times I wear flight suits, some times jeans/sweatshirt and some times a uniform. The picture was taken earlier this year when I was moving an \"E\" model internationally. The Loads I was around wore two skinnier strips.

Sorry for being so long winded...just bored sitting in a hotel room and I guess I am pretty proud of the PFE history...with over 16,000 hours and having my turbo-prop, turbo-jet, and recip FE certificates.

Merry Christmas,

Greg

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Thanks for the reply, Greg.

Yeah, I remember those were some nasty times between the pilots & the FE\'s. The first time I got out of the Air Force in 1967, I went to work for Eastern at Logan in Boston as a Connie & Electra mechanic. The two groups would hardly speak to each other. Eastern offered to train the FE\'s so they could get all their necessary certificates, but most of the FE\'s refused. I don\'t know when it was finally resolved -- I was only there for 6 months & then went back in the USAF.

Don R.

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TalonIIVito,

I wouldn\'t give up all hope of finding a PFE job 6 years from now. The re-engined & re-skinned DC-8-73\'s that UPS flies were zero timed (I\'m told) so they\'ll be around for a while as will some of the other DC-8\'s & 10\'s. The 727 will also be around for a while, although you\'ll probably be flying it in some 3rd world country.

The commercial Hercs will also be around for a long time to come. There\'s nothing that will economically replace them.

You\'re right, though -- an FE ticket & and A&P license are basic requirements for employment as a PFE.

Don R.

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