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c-130 E Model Engine Fire Light at Take Off


Bahroni
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Hi

Few days back, when i was taking Off, while breaking ground, master fire warning light came ON along with No 2 fire handle light with audible warning Horn and went Off after 2-3 seconds. all engine parameters were found to be normal and light stayed ON for only 2-3 seconds and went off. Press to test circuit was found satisfactory with no visible signs/ indications of fire.

We landed back safely without switching OFF the engine through a shorter landing pattern.

Request your observations, advice and suggestions on actions taken and what other actions we should have taken please.

Thanks

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Sounds like a wiring problem. Quickest fix would probably be to replace the inconel fire-wire in the engine and do a test flight.

Question - had the engine been washed recently, i.e. inside the cowls? If the wire is chafed somewhere, water in the open area may be sufficient to momentarily trigger the system.

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I hope it is not the loop; it takes a while to change it. Sometimes it can be the control box in the dry bay, but as intermittent as this is, Bahroni is probably right.

Don\'t forget to check the sections of loop in the horse collar. As with the engine wash question, was anyone recently poking around in the nacelle?

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This problem is obviously and indication problem. I\'ve never seen the inconel tubing cause this. That\'s not to say it can\'t, but I\'d start with the simple things and work my way out. The horrible thing about this system is engine fire and turbine overheat systems are indicated the same way, except the turbine overheat flashes the handle instead of making it come on steady for a fire. If you didn\'t notice if it was definately one and not the other, you may have to troubleshoot both systems. The fire control boxes do cause a lot of problems with the fire detection system. Water in the overheat stats cause a lot of problems in the overheat system, as do chafing wires and such. If you inspect the wiring and find nothing wrong, I\'d change the fire control box. If you don\'t have the resources to troubleshoot by changing parts, you could just swap the boxes around between two engines and see if the problems switches motors, but as with any safety-related system, I wouldn\'t recommend that unless you have no other choice.

Don\'t waste your time inspecting the nacell overheat stats. They do not indicate in the T-handles. Don\'t forget, you also have a relay for each motor behind one of the left upper circuit breaker panel that could cause this problem as well.

Of course, I\'m only and engine troop. An electrician may be able to give you better advice than this. I don\'t know how hard it is to just change the inconel tubing, because I\'ve never had to. Personally, I\'d start with the fire control box and go from there. They go bad all the time.

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I had an intermittent flashing fire light (lower lights in the handle) right after takeoff about two weeks ago. Turned out to be inconel tubing chafing on something.

Most of my false fire lights in E-models turned out to be fire control boxes though...

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From reading the post I think the question is as to the crew performance and not the system...

I think anytime a crew makes a decesion that is contrary to the operating manual it is benificial to discuss the reasoning behind the decision.

The operating manual is a guide and thus is open for the ability to weigh any and all conditions before followiong a proceedure. Under IDEAL conditions the operators manual is always right and if there is an incident you will have to explain your decesion process if you deviate from the proceedure...however aircraft operations are never under IDEAL conditions so...

If you are looking for what you should have done I teach all my students to LOOK OUT THE WINDOW...If the light illuminates treat it as real until you gather evidence that it is a false indication.

Take off is one of the most demanding areas and in terms of time to react, any decisions made at takeoff can help or hurt the situation...The general thought process is during TO if the engine is producing power keep it running if not and the prop is causing directional control issues shut it down.

From the post I think you were justifed in the actions taken only if you considered the indication to be true and then gathered information to prove the false indication.

You have to be careful not to project a disreguard for the proceedures but to incourage the flow of information and good decesion making...

Hope that helps...

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I agree. We waited until we were safely airborne, with plenty of speed, and continued our analysis. We concluded that ours was likely a false indication, but elected to shut it down to be conservative as we were in the local home-drome pattern. We waited until established on a slightly extended final, kept a bit of excess speed (long runway below), and then we shut it down.

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Normally changing the control box will fix it. If not investigate the inconels. They can be disconnected at the breaks and checked with a multi-meter. The bad one will normally show up easily, or new inconels can be slaved in at in the breaks for troubleshooting without changing them.

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In 10 years of flying I\'ve only had 2 instances of engine fire lights. First, 1976, we were doing an engine run for maintenance at LRF. Can\'t remember exactly why a flight crew was needed or what it was for but we did the high power engine run on alpha row (?). Engine run crew was pretty much all new guys who got the run crew job. Doing the engine run got the engine fire light on the engine, AC decided to follow the book and we follow the bold face procedure including firing the bottle. Guess being newbies we just followed the book without much pre-thought. Maintenance was pissed about the bottle but at least we followed the procedure.

Second time was in \'85 or so flying out of EDF one early morning on the way to Kotzebue. Just at sunrise #2 starting giving us what initially looked like a throttle cable failure, low fuel flow, TIT, and torque, etc. TD system and it seemed ok. Before shutting it down asked the AC to slowly turn right to get the engine into the sun. When the sun hit the nacelle saw the inboard cowling covered with fuel and streaming off the engine and over the wing. Caged the engine, followed emergency procedures, got clearance to turn around and head home. Everything fine until we touched down. Fire light came on and we fired the bottle on rollout. Afterwards didn\'t see any sign of fire but we didn\'t take the chance that it was an indication problem. Could have been a lot of fuel in the cowling and the airflow change may have allowed something to ignite. Never found out what caused the fire light but the fuel leak was caused by cracked fuel line going into the burner can.

So fired a couple of bottles in my day but always erred on the side of caution.

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