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Arkansas ANG four engine rollback.


wysongj
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tahoejace wrote:

US Herk wrote:

From the summary of changes in 11-402 dated 25 Sep 2007:

See? I\'m wrong! Haha! Thanks. We don\'t do many (enough) of these (regardless of what they\'re called anymore). Guess folks were still using old terminology - looks like a year old change.

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My unit doesn\'t take brand new FEs. We don\'t have this problem. AD slick units are doing this - LRF\'s product is \"good enough\".

USHerk....since when is \"good enough\" a standard?

Wow! Everytime I had a check ride I learned that what I knew was never \"good enough\".

Now make believe you are a molicule of hyd fluid in the Util hyd reservior, now tell me everything you pass on the way to acuitating the left aileron then return to the reservior.

This was a standard question on one of my check rides. Also another was an electron of power from the generator to the #4 fuel boost pump.

What really is good enough?

Muff

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Muff Millen wrote:

My unit doesn\'t take brand new FEs. We don\'t have this problem. AD slick units are doing this - LRF\'s product is \"good enough\".

USHerk....since when is \"good enough\" a standard?

Wow! Everytime I had a check ride I learned that what I knew was never \"good enough\".

Muff, I agree completely. We\'re getting Instructor FEs here from the AD slick ranks whose general knowledge is pretty sub-standard.

Slick pilots will very shortly never land the plane until they get to the unit. They will do all their work in the left seat in the simulator and come out with a QUAL/INSTM eval making them an FP. When they do their tac flying on the flight line, they\'re sitting in the right seat and the IP will do all the assault landings. So feasibly, they could not actually land the plane until they hit their unit.

I\'m sure it saves a buck somewhere...

The old phrase, \'penny wise and pound foolish\' springs readily to mind.

We\'re fighting this movement, but it\'s headed our way as well in AFSOC. They\'re trying to do more and more in the sim. The sim is an incredible tool, but is no replacement for the aircraft.

We\'re fighting the \"good enough\" syndrome as well. We get questioned on why we\'re FEBing FEs for GK they already \"learned\" at LRF. Well, it\'s obvious to our FEs that their \"good enough\" isn\'t the same as our standard!

I could rant about this forever...it\'s a slippery slope we\'re headed down...with no return.

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US Herk wrote:

See? I\'m wrong! Haha! Thanks. We don\'t do many (enough) of these (regardless of what they\'re called anymore). Guess folks were still using old terminology - looks like a year old change.

Don\'t feel bad, I still thought BOTH terms were valid until I went looking for the reference to post here. I learned something, too. I\'m all over 11-2C-130 when there are changes, but I never think to look in some of the other 11-series pubs anymore.

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US Herk wrote:

Muff, I agree completely. We\'re getting Instructor FEs here from the AD slick ranks whose general knowledge is pretty sub-standard.

I would say that the product leaving LRF has been in a steady decline for several years in ALL crew positions. The focus in a lot of AETC units, not just at Little Rock, has become more about quantity than quality. Unfortunately, instructors in ops squadrons are so spread thin that they can\'t devote the time necessary to fix the problems, they can only affix a band-aid and hope nothing bad happens.

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US Herk wrote:

RZHill wrote:

My unit doesn\'t take brand new FEs. We don\'t have this problem. AD slick units are doing this - LRF\'s product is \"good enough\".

The Charleston unit takes the Little Rock Grads, and then evaluates them, actually retraining them at the unit.

When the Unit changed from 119\'s to Emodels in 75 we were given a two week fam course, a week in the \"B\" simulator at Charlotte and flew with an instructor until he felt we were ready for a check ride. Didn\'t take long, about a week, I had 14 hours in the E when I was let out on my own.

Yes I had previous 130 time in the AD in A Models. But that was in the mid sixties, I was out for a few years.

At That time you spent a lot of time in the books as you didn\'t know when ole Chic would drop in and give you a check ride. It\'s a lot different in a Guard unit, our section was always tight and helped each other to learn the systems.

Guess it\'s going back to the old deal in the ad when \"in the green\" was good enough.

RZ Hill

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tahoejace wrote:

I would say that the product leaving LRF has been in a steady decline for several years in ALL crew positions. The focus in a lot of AETC units, not just at Little Rock, has become more about quantity than quality. Unfortunately, instructors in ops squadrons are so spread thin that they can\'t devote the time necessary to fix the problems, they can only affix a band-aid and hope nothing bad happens.

I have to agree. Add to that the overwhelming majority of their flying is high-level to a pen descent in theater and their low-level SA is lacking. It\'s hard to remain objective at times...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Yeh Chic Anderson, got him one ORI , was scheduled for a check ride with him o dark thirty, I got to the base early, Chic wasn\'t there yet, just did my thing, went out preflighted the airplane, finished up , walked in and low and behold Chick walked in, Only 45 min late. He had to give me that one but the flying part was a killer.

Now I don\'t sign off on the bull crap of the ex Pittsburg acft being a 4 engine roll back. Be willing to bet the acft was on crossfeed and when the a/c made his evasion turn the centrifical force cavitated the pumps, note one engine was still running, I just cannot believe that the three other fuel controls were screwed up.

Pope hadn\'t had this acft long enough to degrade it to that point. Pittsburg has always had superior maint and they wouldn\'t let the acft get that way.

Another thing since the before takeoff checklist was not completed the apu door was open, wouldn\'t have taken 15 seconds to get that generator on line, he would have had all he needed to restart one or more engines.

Sad that the quality of some engineers is so poor.

RZ HIll

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