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Flight Mechanics


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I know the center seat position on the first Herks was called the Flight Mechanic. What other aircraft had actual Flight Mechs? I remember the Air Force discontinued FM's a while back. Anyone remember when? What are/were the differences between an FE and FM (and FCC)? Performance qual would be one I know. Just curious, too much time on my hands (not really!). Thanks!

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I know the center seat position on the first Herks was called the Flight Mechanic. What other aircraft had actual Flight Mechs? I remember the Air Force discontinued FM's a while back. Anyone remember when? What are/were the differences between an FE and FM (and FCC)? Performance qual would be one I know. Just curious, too much time on my hands (not really!). Thanks!

The change in names was prior to 1961 on the C-130A @ Evreux AB FR.

The differance was the FM's had a tool box they took it away and called them FE's.

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I was a FM on JC-131B, VC-118A, and VT29B,C,D. We didn't carry a toolbox. Just a toolkit like the FE's do (or did?). We carried the A43171A AFSC. As soon as the FMs on the VC-118As were made into the 435x0 AFSC they were being snatched up for the Hercs. I was on the 29s at the time so kept my A431x1A AFSC.

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I have known F.E.s that were good enough at switchology AND maintenance to be called flight mechanics. Many of them were VN vets and early crew chiefs - back before MAC decided that crew chiefs were loadmaster assistants. In that early to mid-70s in the USAF, that all changed.

The people taken in the F.E. training program were taught classroom systems classes and theory, but never actual maintenance. They were cross trained out of career fields like cooks, cops, and admin. They became systems operators rather than mechanics. I don't know what the Navy or Coast Guard did about F.E.s then.

I think all this was called "progress."

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When I finished Flight Mechanic/FE school at Sewart in 1966 We were called Flight Mechanice's. Soon after finishing school I was sent to CCK arrived Dec27 1966. At that time they didn't have any seven leval test for C130 FE we all had 7 levals in maintance and we had to meet a board of high ranking FE and were ask a lot of questions about aircraft systems then we were awarded a 7 leval and we were called FE soon after that. I could be wrong about the exact date it has been a long time ago and my memory is not as good as it once was. Most people comming in to the FE career field were former crew cheif's are engine mechanics You had to have a background in aircraft Maintance back then. I came through Little Rock a few years back and stopped at the school SQ. Talked to the NCOIC of Flightengineer's he took me and my wife on a tour of the flight line and we stopped at a C130 and looked it over went in side got to set in the FE's seat first time in over 30 years. He said they were taking in people from many career fieid's to train as FE's.

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Where did the FE,s and FM,s get the starter and generator plates we had to install when the starter or generator went out in a remote place whilst we were TDY?

They would always come walking around the plane with one in hand and say we got to put this on.

Never had to put one on for a hudraulic pump.

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Back in the early 80's you had to come from a mechanical background to cross train into the FE career field.

Yeah, what goes around comes around.

It has been a few years now, but there was a report that the AF was taking folks out of tech school into FE training. I don't know how that stands now, but I was a bit shocked when I heard it back then.

I guess it all depends on how short-handed the AF gets in that career field.

The RGB cover plates were part of the aircraft equipment. I remember when we had overhead racks on the trash-haulers, we bolted those plates onto the bottom of the overhead racks for storage. They got lost way too easily if left loose.

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Steve1300,

Coast Guard FEs are fixers and fliers. All aviation maintenance personnel are also aircrew qualified. Most CG personnel going to FE school have at least a year of maintenance experience. It took a while, but each C-130 airframe now has a tool box bolted to the airframe just aft of the "atomic toilet." (RH side flush model) Not a big division of labor due to our size so everyone gets plenty of experience fueling, towing, wrench turning etc.

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Dutch, did you reply to me saying that you had some info about the a/c numbers for C-130As? If you do and wouldn't mind sharing, I sure would appreciate it. It seems to me that I remember numbers 002, 005, and 513. I was at Naha between June '66 and Dec '69 in the 21st TAS. I think that we started out with squadron maintenance and silver a/c and painted them and went to wing maintenance. It seem like we were always going back and forth between sq and wing maintenance. I liked it better at the squadron level; how about you? My e-mail address is [email protected].

Leon Vaughan (L. T. )

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It has been a few years now, but there was a report that the AF was taking folks out of tech school into FE training. I don't know how that stands now, but I was a bit shocked when I heard it back then.

You may have heard about rotary wing FE's, they have always accepted slick sleeve students.

I heard a couple of times that they bounced the idea around for fixed wing as well but it never got any further than a suggestion.

Last time was when they were talking about scraping the shreadouts between he fixed and rotary wing guys making it a single pool of guys, but I think that idea died a quick death as well.

Dan

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You may have heard about rotary wing FE's, they have always accepted slick sleeve students.

I heard a couple of times that they bounced the idea around for fixed wing as well but it never got any further than a suggestion.

Last time was when they were talking about scraping the shreadouts between he fixed and rotary wing guys making it a single pool of guys, but I think that idea died a quick death as well.

Dan

There is a guy who was pipeline to FE. He now flies on Shadows. He was at Pope initially on slicks and then went to shadows. He is the only one I know of that was successful. I think there was about 5 of them in his class but he was the only one to make it.

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I and another Sailor from Navy Squadron VR-7 (we flew the C-130 for MAC during the Vietnam days) went through FE training at Sewart AFB in 1967. As I recall most of the Air Force guys in the class were ex KC135 boom operators. Our completion certificates read "Flight Engineer."

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Steve1300,

Coast Guard FEs are fixers and fliers. All aviation maintenance personnel are also aircrew qualified. Most CG personnel going to FE school have at least a year of maintenance experience. It took a while, but each C-130 airframe now has a tool box bolted to the airframe just aft of the "atomic toilet." (RH side flush model) Not a big division of labor due to our size so everyone gets plenty of experience fueling, towing, wrench turning etc.

I understand that. The retired CG guys I have met who were F.E.s were pretty sharp on the Herk. Some branches do it better than others.

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Marine FE's used to come from the ranks of the Herk maintenance department exclusively. One had to be a CDI (collateral duty inspector) prior to entering flight training as a FM. Once qualified you could follow on to be an engineer after a couple of years of experience. As the need for FE's grew the MOS became open to other platforms as the F-4's, A-4's and OV-10's were retired. The MOS manual was changed to reflect that the qualified candidate had to have an aviation MOS as a prerequisite. Eventually it was opened up even further to basically anyone that could breathe. We were inundated with grunts and truck drivers for a while. Very few (less than 10%) made it through training.

All FE training was conducted in house until around 1986 when the schoolhouse was opened at MCAS Cherry Point. Pilots, Navigators, and Radio Operators (LM) were trained there as well.

In 1993 a new MOS was created in order to become a feeder for the FE MOS. We would take brand new Marines fresh from aviation maintenance training at Memphis/Pensacola and put them through FM training. What was supposed to happen was that we'd have this pool of qualified fliers to pick from for FE training. As with almost all first term enlistee's, most of them got out, so the pool wasn't so big afterall.

The introduction of the KC-130J changed all that. Some of the FE's left for the reserve units in TX and NY. The ones that didn't (or couldn't) were converted to crew chiefs. Quite a few got out or retired. The schoolhouse has since been decommissioned and all initial training is conducted at Little Rock for the "J". The two reserve units train there own FM's and FE's now. And most of thier students come from the Herk maintenance department.

Someone said it earlier, what goes around comes around...

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I and another Sailor from Navy Squadron VR-7 (we flew the C-130 for MAC during the Vietnam days) went through FE training at Sewart AFB in 1967. As I recall most of the Air Force guys in the class were ex KC135 boom operators. Our completion certificates read "Flight Engineer."

My cert (Nov. 65) says Fight Mechanic, That was what I was called until Discharge in June 66.

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You may have heard about rotary wing FE's, they have always accepted slick sleeve students.

I heard a couple of times that they bounced the idea around for fixed wing as well but it never got any further than a suggestion.

Last time was when they were talking about scraping the shreadouts between he fixed and rotary wing guys making it a single pool of guys, but I think that idea died a quick death as well.

Dan

Back in late 1979(?) a bunch of C-130 IFEs, from around the force, were sent to Altus to validate the school for Herc FEs. I think that there were 34 of us. We attended the 8 week school and got our C shreadouts. The 7 of use from LRF were directed to take the course material and consolidate the course into a 2 week course to be taught to current Herc FEs.

Took us about a year, all said and done including still flying. Once approved we had to teach the course. This was done so that all fixed wing FEs would have a C shreadout and thus increase the pool of FEs for various assignments, with only having to attend aircraft specific training.

Not sure how far it progressed. I left LRF in mid 1982.

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All FE training was conducted in house until around 1986 when the schoolhouse was opened at MCAS Cherry Point. Pilots, Navigators, and Radio Operators (LM) were trained there as well.

Someone said it earlier, what goes around comes around...

KC130FE

I'm not disputing your statement; just curious, but when I went through instructor school at the Rock back in 1975 or 1976, there was a Marine there going through the basic FE school. In fact, he's a member of this forum.

SEFEGEORGE:

I remember when all FE's got the C shreadout. I was at Rhein Main and we started getting a lot of C-141 and C-5 FE's that had never had an overseas assignment. Most of them were pissed! Also most of them had an extremely difficult time adapting to tac airlift.

Don R.

Edited by DC10FE
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KC130FE

I'm not disputing your statement; just curious, but when I went through instructor school at the Rock back in 1975 or 1976, there was a Marine there going through the basic FE school. In fact, he's a member of this forum.

Don R.

That could be. I imagine that the basics would need to be taught in a more structured environment. I didn't get into the Herk community until the late 80's. By then the FE Ground Course was taught at MCAS El Toro.

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Once flew with 2 butterbar marine pilots at the school house, circa 1980. No student FE so I was stuck with flying the seat instead of snoozing on the bunk. Did a lot of the flying at Blytheville that student class. Have never seen any 2 pilots who could not find the centerline - weaving back and forth on final. Thought we needed curb feelers on the wingtips as they were going to drag along the runway. During the first few classes closest we got to the centerline was the inboard engines. Luckily Blytheville had a WIDE runway. Guess that they got better since they graduated Phase I while I was on leave.

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