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Tips for another new guy...


goodolboy
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Howdy Herk veterans,

I am enroute to the C-130 via the TC-12 down here in Corpus Christi, Texas. Our assignment drop will be in a few months, and I'm looking to narrow down my choices. I know I want slicks, but the first question is whether or not I should shoot for J-models? Is the loss of a full-sized crew worth gaining fancy avionics? Second, current active-duty slick locations include Little Rock, Pope, Ramstein, Dyess, Peterson, Cheyenne, and Yokota. If you were a young pilot about to start your career in the C-130, where would you choose to fly first?

Thank y'all for your opinions and time, and I appreciate your current or previous service to the country.

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If it was me I would look at the missions/assignments that each unit does and decide from there.

As a engine troop from Peterson AFB we have all but seen it all . I can't speak for any other units but here at Pete we have Desert rotations , MAFFS assignments when the states are burning up , Coronet Oak and so on.

The 302ND now along with others is a joint unit with active duty (52ND) working along side the Reserve/ART force. So far it has been a clean transition and we have some stellar active duty guys come in . The 302ND flies the very last of the H3 models off of the Marietta line. The maintenance is top notch and the people care about our rides.

The 731ST that flies the birds are a great group of guys and gals. The FE section along with the LOADs are a great group .

Besides you can't beat this view.

http://www.302aw.afrc.af.mil/

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I'll admit I'm biased about J models. I'm a retired FE but I've heard many very experienced Herk pilots state they wanted the navs and FEs when it gets really busy. I'd start out on H models and learn the mission. Having two crew members watching what you're doing and have no control over it will let you know if you scare them. :eek:;)

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Go slicks, no matter the location you will eventually fly the J-model. I'm like Dave in WV that I'm a little biased to the legacy birds, it's all I've flown and really like the Eng and Nav. That being said it really doesn't matter where you go, if you get J's GREAT! If you get E's at the 61st even better (my Alma Mater ;) ) You'll appreciate the J when you get it. If you are looking for mission; go slicks, learn the mission/aircraft then go AFSOC... I did and life is great.

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I would say go for J models to Ramstein. I am a loadmaster on J's at Little Rock, previously flew on E's and think that any J slot would be the place to go. With AFSOC bringing the J online you will always have that option if you decide you enjoy slicks and want to head down that road. We have pilots who are straight out of pilot training, cross-flowed from other airframes and previous E/H folks and I can honestly say that we have no issues with the lack of folks on the flight deck. If you choose E/H's I would shoot for Peterson, great location and as MAXTORQ said you have some well maintained, newer airframes that you would be flying.

Good luck

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Be advised, Cannon (AFSOC) is out there now, and they're taking new CP's. I'll leave it at that......

(spoken in salty FE voice..) you should do your time at one of the big 3, (pope, the rock, or dyess), get a good handle on the mobility mission, be it on J's or whatever they have at the time/place. Deploy a few times, get some experience, all the while being a good, aspiring, young officer, developing a good reputation and at the same time not kissing a$$. Go for an overseas assignment, (I loved Ramstein), more (professional) exposure to a different command, same but different type missions. Live it up, enjoy all the things the host country has to offer.

By now you're a seasoned A/C type, and as others have mentioned, I'd say go for the AFSOC gig. Different world, new play book with different rules. With that background you'll appreciate the air conditioning packs on (some of) the AFSOC planes, also depending what plane you came off of. It'll be nice not doing cargo runs every night, but doing the "mission" sets (type of plane dependent), little hair raising and exciting situations you find yourself in.

All in all, have fun doing it. 130's are a great gig. I've been in the AF for xx years, all with 130's be it as an engine mechanic and now FE. That association has taken me around the world, the good and bad spots. and it during the good and bad it's been...fun. Wouldn't trade it for anything

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I know the Peterson 130s help with fire-fighting and the Pope birds fly for the 82nd Airborne frequently. What other squadrons have niche-type missions stateside?

Thank you all for the help! I'm trying to gather as much as I can from my instructors and anybody else who will volunteer their opinion. By far, the most common advice for us 2LTs is 'Shut up, and listen to those with more experience.' Keep it coming!

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I know the Peterson 130s help with fire-fighting and the Pope birds fly for the 82nd Airborne frequently. What other squadrons have niche-type missions stateside?

Thank you all for the help! I'm trying to gather as much as I can from my instructors and anybody else who will volunteer their opinion. By far, the most common advice for us 2LTs is 'Shut up, and listen to those with more experience.' Keep it coming!

When I was an LT I was lucky to be assigned to an all Instructor crew. I would get asked a "Question of the Day" from each crew position. My job was to have an answer the next day -- I was not allowed to ask another crew memeber. But the Mx folks were there and the biggest help. But, not all questions involved something Mx would know about -- my brain was hurting many an evening trying to figure out an answer. Lot of book work. :)

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In today's world, there is no base that is worse than the others. You will get your share of action no matter where you go. Pope was a great place to start out for me. There was lots of flying time and a lot of great places to go. I'm not sure how it is with the Active Associate unit now. I went to Rhein Main in the early 90s (when it was still open) thinking I was going to the Rhein Main flying club (lots of good embassy runs and training weeks in great places), but after Desert Shield/Storm, Provide Comfort and two plus years flying in the Balkans, I was burned out and ready to go. The school house at Little Rock ended up being a great place to go after that.

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Restore Hope was Somalia.

Provide Hope:

Operation Provide Hope, coordinated by U.S. Naval Forces, Europe, is a continuing humanitarian operation to provide excess medical equipment to the former Soviet republics during their transition to democratic and free market states.

Sixty-five C-5 and C-141 missions flew 2,363 tons of food and medical supplies to 24 locations in the Commonwealth of Independent States during Operation Provide Hope I. USAFE established three project teams (Rhein-Main AB, Germany, and Ankara and Incirlik ABs, Turkey) to support the operation.

Operation Provide Hope II, a long-term effort to aid cities in the former Soviet Union, began. Sea and land transport were the primary means of shipping excess food stocks from Luxembourg and Pisa, Italy, and excess medical stocks from Pirmasens, Germany. Airlift missions began on 24 April to deliver relief supplies where surface transportation was impractical (Minsk, for example). By the end of the operation, US European Command transferred a total of 25,000 short tons of food and medicine from European stockpiles to 33 cities in the former Soviet Union, most of it by commercial freight. USAFE shipped and helped install hospital equipment at Minsk, Belarus, under Operation Provide Hope IV. Medical technicians from the 608th Contingency Hospital, RAF Upwood, UK, conducted a site survey and technical assessment in January; inventoried, packed, and shipped the materiel to Minsk in February; and installed the equipment and provided technical training and assistance during July and August. Supporting Provide Hope IV, 41 US Army, Air Force, and Navy medical technicians delivered and installed medical equipment and supplies at two cities in Moldova. The team installed materiel worth $10 million -- enough to support a 602-bed hospital -- at 10 facilities in Chisinau and two in Beltsi, then trained Moldovan medical personnel to use and maintain the equipment. The 86th Medical Group, Ramstein AB, Germany, provided the Air Force contingent. Forty-three US Army, Air Force, and Navy technicians installed $12.5 million of supplies and equipment (equivalent to an 800-bed field hospital) in six medical facilities at Almaty, Kazakhstan

Provide Comfort:

Following Desert Storm, the entire Kurdish population of Iraq attempted to flee the country to the north out of fear that Saddam Hussein would attempt to exterminate their entire population. Because of political concerns, Turkish officials refused to allow these desperate people permission to cross the border into Turkey. The result was that hundreds of thousands of Kurds were essentially trapped on barren and rocky hillsides, vulnerable to not only Hussein’s forces, but to the harsh elements as well. Without basic necessities, to include access to water, food and medical supplies, hundreds of Kurds were dying each week. In April of 1991, President George Bush made the decision to provide relief and protection for these beleaguered people. Smith was given the task of rapidly establishing and deploying a Joint Force whose mission was to “stop the dying.†Literally overnight, Operation “Provide Comfort†was born. In less than 48 hours from receiving the order to “do somethingâ€, cargo and fighter aircraft were re-deployed to bases in southern Turkey where they began delivering humanitarian supplies. Over a period of a few weeks a US led coalition force was deployed into northern Iraq, resettlement areas constructed and a de-militarized zone established for the protection of the Kurds.

The massive defeat of the Iraqi military machine tempted the Iraqi Kurds to revolt against the Baghdad regime. Encouraged by American radio2_bing.gif broadcasts to rise up against their ‘dictator’, the Kurds of northern Iraq rebelled against a nominally defeated and certainly weakened Saddam Hussein in March of 1991. Shortly after the war ended, Kurdish rebels attacked disorganized Iraqi units and seized control of several towns in northern Iraq. From the town of Rania, this sedition spread quickly through the Kurdish north. Fear of being drawn into an Iraqi civil war and possible diplomatic repercussions precluded President Bush from committing US forces to support the Kurds. Within days Iraqi forces recovered and launched a ruthless counteroffensive including napalm and chemical attacks from helicopters. They quickly reclaimed lost territory and crushed the rebellion.

Knowing the possible repercussions of further actions by Iraq, more than one million refugees headed toward the mountains of Iran and Turkey. Conditions deteriorated rapidly as crowds grew by the hour. There was no food, shelter, or water. It was still winter in the mountains, with temperatures plunging far below freezing each night. Press reports indicated as many as 3 million people fleeing, with the Iraqi Army still in pursuit. By April 2nd over a million Kurds had fled Iraq (approx. 800,000 Kurds in Iran, 300,000 in southeastern Turkey and another 100,000 along the Turkish/Iraq border. By the first week of April, 800 to 1,000 people, mostly the very young and the very old, were dying each day.

On 3 April 1991, the Security Council passed United Nations Resolution 687. This document reaffirmed the need to be assured of Iraq’s peaceful intentions in the light of its unlawful invasion and occupation of Kuwait, and prohibited Iraq from manufacturing or using weapons of mass destruction.

The United Nations then passed resolution 688 on 5 April 1991. This document condemned Iraqi repression and asked member states to assist the Kurds and other refugees in northern Iraq with a demand for Iraq to cooperate with these relief efforts. The dilapidated conditions of some 500,000 refugees in the freezing remote mountains in southeastern Turkey prompted President Bush to order the United States European Forces to direct immediate relief assistance.

Joint Task Force Provide Comfort was formed on 6 April 1991 and deployed to Incirlik Air Base, Turkey, to conduct humanitarian operations in northern Iraq. Maj Gen James L. Jamerson, the USAFE deputy chief of staff for operations, commanded the effort. After British and French cargo aircraft arrived the next day, he redesignated the organization as a Combined Task Force. The task force dropped its first supplies to Kurdish refugees on 7 April. The result of President Bush’s order and UN resolution 688, culminated in a coalition of 13 nations with material contributions from 30 countries working under the command and control of the Coalition Task Force. Although many nations ultimately contributed to the operation, the primary countries involved were the US, the United Kingdom, France, and Turkey.

On 16 April 1991, the President of the US, authorized by UN resolution 688, expanded Operation Provide Comfort to include multinational forces with the additional mission of establishing temporary refuge camps in northern Iraq. This unit was first labeled "Express Care." On 17 April, when it had become apparent that a ground presence in northern Iraq was necessary, Lt Gen John M. Shalikashvili, US Army, replaced General Jamerson as commander.

Two subordinate joint task forces (JTFs) were also established to facilitate the mission. JTF ‘Alpha’ spread throughout the mountains of southeast Turkey, headquartered in Silopi, was responsible for alleviating the dying and suffering while stabilizing the situation. Commanded by BG Richard Potter, USA, JTF Alpha was composed primarily of the 10th Special Forces (SF) Group.

The second component, JTF ‘Bravo’, centered on the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) commanded by MG Jay Garner, USA. Its mission was to prepare the town of Zakho, in northern Iraq, for the incoming Kurds and facilitate their eventual transfer back to their homes. An important part of this mission was the ‘seamless’ transfer of responsibility over to NGOs. Task Force Encourage Hope (later renamed Joint Task Force Bravo), was formed to construct a series of resettlement camps where dislocated civilians could find food and shelter and a secure environment. Encourage Hope was designed to integrate civilian relief agencies into the support, organization, and administration of the camps. The Kurds were expected to assist in the planning, construction, administration, and sustainment of these camps. The camps each held about 25,000 people and were initially supplied by the military. They eventually-became self-sustaining and were transferred to Kurdish or non-government agency control as soon as possible. It was hoped that Joint Task Force Encourage Hope could be dissolved after about a month.

Task force members on the ground built refugee camps and maintained a security zone in northern Iraq to protect the Kurds from the Iraqi military. Air units operating from Incirlik enforced a no-fly zone above the 36th parallel while providing air cover for friendly forces on the ground. Aircraft from Incirlik and other bases in eastern Turkey dropped desperately needed supplies to the Kurds.

No one knew what Iraq's reaction to this "invasion" would be. Therefore, the task force left nothing to chance during the airdrop missions. Flights of A-10s preceded the cargo planes, looking for any sign of resistance on the ground. Meanwhile, F-15s and F-16s patrolled the skies above to negate any threat from the air. An E-3 orbited the area to observe the situation and control the fighters, while KC-135s provided aerial refueling. Once a forward airstrip opened in late April, however, airdrops were no longer necessary.

Operation PROVIDE COMFORT (OPC) sought the achievement of two goals: To provide relief to the refugees, and to enforce the security of the refugees and the humanitarian effort. These two goals were maintained from April to September 1991 by the CTF. During this time it flew over 40,000 sorties, relocated over 7000,000 refugees, and restored 70-80 percent villages destroyed by the Iraqis. In addition to these achievements, the aircraft participating faced many dangers.

Combined Task Force (CTF) Provide Comfort would oversee the building of shelters and distribution of supplies, ensure order, and provide security throughout this area. The provision of security was essential to get the Kurds to move from the mountains back to their homes and transfer the responsibility for them from the military to international agencies. The camps were designed to reflect the cultural realities of the Kurds. They were built around five-person tents, a 66-person tent neighborhood (Zozan); a 1,056-person tent village (Gund); a 2,500-person tent community (Bajeer) and in the center, the community center and administration area.

Two disparate types of operations were being conducted simultaneously during Operation Provide Comfort. One was the humanitarian effort and the other the security operation. In many ways they competed and conflicted with one another. The staff ran these as concurrent operations and often had to set aside specific times to focus totally on one operation or the other. Because of conflicting priorities, movement of relief supplies and humanitarian forces competed with the movement of security equipment, ammunition, materiel, and forces. Security operations had to precede humanitarian operations to dear areas of mines and potential hostile forces. While most civilian relief agendas grew more comfortable working alongside military forces performing humanitarian tasks, they were not comfortable around gun-toting security forces.

As Operation Provide Comfort matured, many GO, IO, NGO and PVO participating independently in the relief/humanitarian efforts eventually, if somewhat reluctantly, demanded access to the JTF CMOC so they could coordinate their efforts and thus reduce redundancy within their area of responsibility (AOR). Their access to the JTF commander was unobstructed; the CMOC, located across the street from the JTF HQ at Incirlik Air Base, facilitated 24-hour access. The CMOC comprised an augmentation element of USAR CA personnel from the 353rd CA Command which operated under the staff supervision of the JTF Civil-Military Operations officer, BG Don Campbell (commanding general of USEUCOM aligned 353rd CA Command). This JTF CMOC received data from the JTF Joint Operations Center, GO, IO, NGO, and PVO, and developed CMO-related plans in support of the JTF objectives.

By mid-July, the task force pulled out of Iraq but left a residual force in southeastern Turkey to keep the Iraqis in check. A military coordination center remained in Iraq to liaise between the armed forces and civilian relief workers. The UN had assumed responsibility for the refugee camps.

Operation PROVIDE COMFORT I ended on 24 July 1991, and PROVIDE COMFORT II began. Up until this point the task force airdropped 6,154 short tons of supplies, flown in another 6,251 by helicopter, and delivered a further 4,416 tons by truck

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Provide Promise:

The violent disintegration of Yugoslavia prompted the United Nations (UN) to deploy peacekeeping forces and begin humanitarian relief operations. Operation Provide Promise (July 1992-March 1996) was a joint operation with the US Navy and Air Force involving both naval carrier aircraft and land-based air protected humanitarian relief efforts in the besieged cities of the former Yugoslavia.

USAFE's 435th Airlift Wing flew as many as six C-130 sorties per day from Rhein-Main to Sarajevo. Cease-fire violations, including firing at relief aircraft approaching Sarajevo, frequently forced UN officials to suspend operations at the airport. Participating crews reported 279 incidents, but the only deaths occurred when an Italian G-222 was shot down in September 1992, killing the four crewmen. Three C-130s from the 435th conducted the first night airdrops over Bosnia, releasing 16 tons of Meals, Ready to Eat (MREs) on 28 Feb 93. French participation in the air drops began 27 March 1993, and the Germans flew their first air-drop mission a day later. The last air drop occurred 19 August 1994. By the end of the operation, aircraft from 21 countries had flown 12,886 sorties into Sarajevo, delivering 159,622 tons of food, medicine, and supplies and evacuating over 1,300 wounded people. The US flew 3,951 C-130, 236 C-141, and 10 C-17 airland sorties (delivering 62,801.5 tons), as well as 2,222 C-130 air-drop sorties (28,748 Container Delivery System bundles and 1185 tri-wall aerial delivery system [TRIADS] bundles). Navy and Marine Corps aircraft, a Marine aerial refueling squadron, a military police unit, a Navy fleet hospital manned with both active and reserve personnel, and on-call Marines from the European theater's amphibious ready group (ARG) and Marine expeditionary unit (special-operations capable) (MEU [SOC2_bing.gif]) supplied support to UN forces.

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Go overseas first. You get to do alot of things you dont get to do stateside. I was stationed at Yokota as a FNG,and was pissed. But the more things i got to experience, both on and off base were very exciting, in terms of local culture, food and esp the TDY'S.

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Alot of our prior H/E pilots love the J. They love the crew on the H but cant live without the HUD.

Having said that, I love the J, its new, its fast(for a c130), and its sexier but I think it would be better to go to the legacy and transition to the J. Itll be easier to go forward then backward. Out with the old in with the new. More shock and awe factor.

For what its worth im a load in the Coast Guard, and I sit in the third seat in a J.

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Here's my bit of advise, take it or leave it.

Since your just starting out in your career, if you do stay for a career you WILL fly the J model, so I would recommend you start in an E model if you can but any variation of the H will do as well, the older the better.

My basis for this fleeting thought is this, when you learn to drive do you get the old 65 Volkswagen Bus beater with a quarter million miles (and its not so bad if you bend it a little) or do you learn to drive on a brand new Bentley?

If you start your career in the core model birds, you will gain much more for you aviation education than you would with the New Sleek Slick J model.

I am a retired Flight Engineer and the way I look at it, if you have a good,crusty ol Flight Engineer you can learn lots of things that you would never learn from just another pilot (systems and the aerodynamic interplay from a different orientation and non-pilot point of view)(and don't forget the proper way to dismember the dead hookers so they fit in your car trunk).

You will learn things from Navigators that will stay with you for your entire life as a Pilot (how to do really, really, crazy practical jokes that usually go way wrong but are funny as hell), more experience from a non pilot aviator point of view that you would have never gotten if you go straight to the J.

If you get on the old E models you are guaranteed to get lots of practice with your EP's, including lots of engine shutdowns and some of the craziest crap you can imagine.

Once you get all you can from the full crew Volkswagen, then move on to the sweet new two seat Bentley and smell the new car smell.

If you go straight to the J's you will be missing so much practical education that you could have gotten on the E's and H's, it will make you a safer pilot and better qualified to make command decisions when you move to the left seat, and there's nobody up there but you and a co-pilot.. A better knowledge base and C-130 pilot experience foundation if you will.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do and welcome to the exciting and wonderful world of Herk.

Dan

dead-hooker-storage-535x749.jpg

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I've always looked the J as more of an "airline" airplane - glass cockpit, 2 pilots, nothing more. I work at a flight training facility for a major cargo airline (no names now), and I see the 747 and MD-11 pilots come and go for their 6 month and 12 month training and quals, as well as initial quals. Kind of scary for an old FE like myself. Knowing you've got 2 bus drivers up front and that's it. I'm not dismissing the J model loads here they work hard too, our planes have "loaders" too they just don't fly with the airplane.

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