bobdaley Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 I just read the report AF 2011, 18 H models going to AD from ARF AFRC Pope 4, Youngstown 2, Dobbins 1, Maxwell 1, Pitt 1, Niagara 1 ANG St Joe 2, TX 1, NV 1, WY 1, GA 1, DE 1, Schenectady 1 Also 4 H's being removed from Nashville, 4 H's going to AK ANG Little Rock lose 28 E's Duke lose 2 MC-130E Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railrunner130 Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I thought PR got a stay of execution as well. The premise behind this is that they want to temporarily set up an H2 model schoolhouse with Guard/Reserve folks. Five year "borrow" they call it. I've already informed my representation of my thoughts on this idea.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZHill Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I thought the Guard unit was doing this mission , what's the deal? Sure shows that the last grab to pope was a mistake. RZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZHill Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 I thought that the Guard unit at Lrafb was doing the Guard training, now the a/d has to stick it's fingers in the pie. Pulling 1/4 of the acft from pope shows that that decision to set it up was a mistake. RZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railrunner130 Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 The Guard still is doing what it was. Mostly instructor schools. They will also be responsible for being the AMP schoolhouse. I wonder if the 62nd is going or went away? My thoughts are towards Nashville and Dobbins being the most qualified candidates for filling the void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZHill Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 With the A/D going "j" models I don't see the need for an 18 acft unit to train primarly Guard and Reserve FE's and Navs. Typical AFarse overkill. Look at the acft picked, a spread of 78 to 94 Models and all the differences there are in these acft. Typical bean counters really don't know beans about this. RZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Wilson Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEFEGeorge Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 With the A/D going "j" models I don't see the need for an 18 acft unit to train primarly Guard and Reserve FE's and Navs. Typical AFarse overkill. Look at the acft picked, a spread of 78 to 94 Models and all the differences there are in these acft. Typical bean counters really don't know beans about this. RZ RZ, when I first started flying at LRF in 1975 we had a spread of year models from 62E's to 73H's. There's some substantial differences between them. I think that it added to the crews awareness, knowledge, and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StovetopNav Posted May 17, 2010 Share Posted May 17, 2010 Not surprised one bit. I'm sure it will all work flawlessly, like all plans do from DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdaley Posted May 18, 2010 Author Share Posted May 18, 2010 Seems like a back to the hollow force approach to me. I think RZ may have something. They should have just closed Pope. I wonder how many vacancies the Reserve unit at Pope has. I can't imagine anyone from Milwaukee moving to No Hope except Full time Technicians to keep their civil service jobs and out of work airline pilots. bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Wilson Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 Seems like a back to the hollow force approach to me. Thats exactly what they're doing:mad::mad: Yet all our wunnerful talking heads keep saying "sure we can do all these deployments back to back, sure we got lots o folks and as a matter of fact lets dump another 14K of airmen this year Pure unadulterated political BS, suit or uniform makes no difference these days, all just talking heads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StovetopNav Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 I'm sure droves of AFRC and ANG folks will pick up and move to LRF for a "temporary" training solution. Should've just kept the AD E's a little longer, probably would've been cheaper in the long run vs. this goat rope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave in WV Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Two were originally going to be taken from WV (130th) and sent to LR. The 130th has H3's they got from Martinsburg, WV (167th). Somehow I don't believe the school house wasn't the destination for the WV birds. It wasn't going to be a "loan" either. The BRAC tried to get all of the H3's from the 130th and failed. Sour grapes? The plan was to take the 8 H2's from Pitt and 8 H2's from Charlie West and start a new AFRES unit at Pope and close the AD unit. Then the left hand spoke the right hand and found out 4 of the H2's from Charlie West were going to be MC-130W's. Then the plan was to combine the 8 H2's from Pitt and the 8 H3's from Charlie West to form the unit. Gee, isn't there a AF reg not allowing crews to be dual H2/H3 qualifed other than numbered AF and AMC command stan eval? This whole mess is largely Congess' fiasco. They didn't fund upgrading the AD C-130 fleet. They threw a large sum of money (not properly accounted for) at the aging E model fleet. Maybe the guys at the Pentagon figured they'd get newer toys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZHill Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Actually Dave all 8 of our 88 fiscal year birds are now "wombats" . This was really planned before we got them and the only reason we got them was that the A?D didn't have the money in it's budget to purchase them at that time. Remember these birds were "stripped" version's , No SKI etc. Dam good flying acft tho. After a few years the call went out for the acft and our eloustrious Congressmen negotated the C-5"s to Martinsburg, H-3's to Charleston. Charlie West has already given one acft to the AMP (a money pocket) program.The three acft involved now sit worthless to a field Commander due to nonsupportability. Much as I hate to see the FE'S go, the "j" is good for the a/d . As for schooling, I remember in 75 that we had a two week ground school, week of simulator , 15 hours of instructor time and out the door. Worked for us. Why do we now need all these training units. LR a/d, Lr Guard, Nashville, Dobbins. ? Seems like overkill to me. The best training you will get is with your home unit, in actual missions. This is where the Guard and Reserve excell. You have the constant mentoring of folks that have flown the line for 20 years, are not stuck in a training environment and who get to see actual missions. I'm not knocking the schools but I feel a better rounded education is given by "hands on" training. Remember we have to do this on one weekend a month and two weeks a year. " yeh Right" RZ Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdaley Posted May 19, 2010 Author Share Posted May 19, 2010 Dobbins is no longer AETC gained schoolhouse, back to hauling trash. Nashville had congressmen who would not let the unit be closed and got a foreign student training unit in place of hauling trash, How many students they have? Last thing I saw was Ramstein, Yokota, 2 sq's at Dyess and 41 Sq at LRF plus 48 Sq at LRF, schoolhouse, all to J's. 50th has H's and 53 and 61 to get H's from Dyess. It would make sense to me to give the Yokota H's to the 62nd for training, not this plane grab? Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Railrunner130 Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Bob- We've got a guy going through Dobbins training right now and just got another one back from school there. I think they keep getting stays of execution on the training squadron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StovetopNav Posted May 19, 2010 Share Posted May 19, 2010 Remember that they cut the J buy short. Don't think Yokota is slated to get them anymore, but who knows. The Japanese Senator isn't as strong as Arkansas'...you know we don't let operational considerations get in the way of the political decision making process! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lkuest Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Last thing I saw was Ramstein, Yokota, 2 sq's at Dyess and 41 Sq at LRF plus 48 Sq at LRF, schoolhouse, all to J's. 50th has H's and 53 and 61 to get H's from Dyess. It would make sense to me to give the Yokota H's to the 62nd for training, not this plane grab? Bob The latest rumor is that the 62nd is outright closing within several years. I also believe they might be retiring H1's soon, but I don't know how solid that rumor is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith130 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 I think the Air Force will be buying Js for a long time. Look at the C-17. Both the Air Force and President have been trying to close down that line for years, but it never fails that another 10 or 12 are added to the budget every year. Congress kept the C-130 line open for a long time with adds to the Air Force's budget. I don't think they will let the line close down anytime soon as long as there are Es, H1s, and maybe even some H2s (some are now over 30 years old) still flying and the herk force is being kept busy like they are today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdaley Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 This morning from the AF Association 62 close in 2012 New Reserve squadron to open in 2011 to do H training, with 710 Reservists. Does anyone believe those planes will go back to their units? Lockgreed still shows production numbers 5792 to 5800 for Yokota. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RZHill Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 Now in this tight time why in hell do we have to open another unit and all of it's command structure when The Guard unit in place , currently doing this type of training, could easily expand it's size and do this training. Where do they think they are going to come up with another 714 trained folks? I guess they will take first termers out of the a/d. Lots of experience there. I thought that was the reasoning of using Dobbins for training, to have experienced instructors. Here we go , another maint group, dock etc. Then they are going to downsize NO Hope Pope by 1/4. Doesn't make good sense. Shortly we will have another BRAC, there will probably be another round of closings, how would this deal look, to the commitee? I don't think there will be an iron grab this time, the Guard and Reserve H2-3's will not be compatable to a "j" unit, No Navs. FE's. What is going to happen one of these days is the spirit of a unit is going to be broken , and then what?? Sure glad I was in "in the good old days" When preformance, unit quality was tops on the list. RZ Hill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsmith130 Posted May 20, 2010 Share Posted May 20, 2010 One of the problems the A/D has is where do they draw the instructors from for the E/H school house. The only non-J A/D units will be at Little Rock and Yokota (if they don't transition to the J) plus a couple of Active Associate units. They could pull every instructor from those units and still not have enough to fill the school house. So the Guard/Reserve are pretty much forced to do their own training. The only question is where. The Rock just happens to have the ATS and simulator space to support the mission. It's not necessarily the best solution, but really the only choice for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdaley Posted May 20, 2010 Author Share Posted May 20, 2010 Why not as RZ said just move the H's from Pope give them to the 62 Boband keep all the Instructors the 62 already has? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPTestFE Posted May 24, 2010 Share Posted May 24, 2010 If you try to keep what instructors are already in the 62, you'll end up losing maybe around 70-80% inside 4 years. I think that most still do not really want to be there, but it may have changed in the last 5 years. I remember when the code 50 thing hit...there were some bummed-out folks. Quite a few wanted to go AFSOC, etc, but were held up by their code status. Also, keeping who you already have will eventually get you a squadron full of MSgts, all (well, maybe some) wanting some sort of promotion chance within the wing. That can't happen either. Your best bet is to do what they're planning. I just don't see where they're gonna get very many folks up front. Guys/girls who want to stay may not be able to get out of their enlistment/commission, and the way it was when I got out a year ago, I don't see them all getting palace chase either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooseherc Posted May 25, 2010 Share Posted May 25, 2010 I'm AD at Pope and we can barely get any hours as it is. Can't imagine losing 4 more planes considering one of our 16 has been out at Edwards for the AMP deal forever and we always have one at depot. Don't know how many more years the AMP bird will be out there. These things never fly due to maintenance as it is. We are trying a 3 turn 3 and are lucky if half of the planes fly each day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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