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Ramp Control Knob


cheema
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hi folks.... the thing is I'm new to Herk and this Forum so dont lash at me....

i have a question about the ramp contol knob, the one who got six positions. can it be turned counterclockwise(physically i know it can, i'm asking isnt it prohibited). if it can be turned counterclockwise, then why dont we keep it to 3n rather than 6n?

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It was left in 6N because it was assumed that you would be opening the ramp first. That is why you move it from the #6 to the #1 position which slightly raises the ramp and retracts the locks, then the #2 position which lowers the ramp, then to #3 (neutral). The #4 position raises the ramp while the number 5 position extends the locks.

Its been many years, but I believe the sequence is correct - cannot remember what the -1, -9 (or 55-130) specified regarding the sequence, but some document specified the selector valve was suppose to be left in the 6N position.

Again, many years have passed and I could be suffering from CRS.

Hush

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hi folks.... the thing is I'm new to Herk and this Forum so dont lash at me....

i have a question about the ramp contol knob, the one who got six positions. can it be turned counterclockwise(physically i know it can, i'm asking isnt it prohibited). if it can be turned counterclockwise, then why dont we keep it to 3n rather than 6n?

There is an arrow on the knob, showing that the knob is turned in the clockwise direction.

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It's not left in the 6N position all the time. It is only in the 6N position after the ramp is in the up and locked position. When the ramp is extended to the ADS position or beyond it is left in the 3N position. Since it is easier to turn the knob from 3N to 4 clockwise than is it to turn it to 4 counterclockwise, you always rotate it in the direction of the arrow. Lets say that the ramp is in the ADS position and the knob is in the proper position when you approach it (3N) and you rotate it backwards (counterclock-wise) as soon as you hit position 5 the ramp locks are going to extend. Now you got the ramp sequence control valve out of rig with the doghouse linkage, and your stuck with the ramp in the ADS position with the locks extended. Not always an easy job to fix and not a quick way to make friends with the A/R troops and aircraft DCC. Just follow the T.O. and all will be well.

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Our friends at Lockheed told us in thier Service News Magazine not to turn it backwards as it would possible put the timing out of sequence. However, I have inadvertainly done so in the past with no damage noted. Does that means it can be done backwards safely? I wouldn't bet on it.

There are lots of little possible glitches in our systems that can arise, but we find they only step up to slap us in the face when we don't expect it.

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This doesn't have to with the sequence of the knob but a story about teaching how to use it.

I was explaining about how you turn it clockwise when I notced I was getting the old deer in the headlights look from the students.

New age students are not all familiar with clockwise due to being in the digital age.

Being an old fart I negelected to think of that.

It was kind of funny at the time

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actually there was an old c130 guy, he told me that we keep it to 6N cause both #1 and #5 are safe positions. even if inadvertantly you move it to either #1 or #5 position it wont open the ramp.....which at all doent make sense to me...cause this knob just cant be at 3N with ramp up and lock....what you guys think?

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This doesn't have to with the sequence of the knob but a story about teaching how to use it.

I was explaining about how you turn it clockwise when I notced I was getting the old deer in the headlights look from the students.

New age students are not all familiar with clockwise due to being in the digital age.

Being an old fart I negelected to think of that.

It was kind of funny at the time

My sister in law is 12 now, we had to describe to her what a typewriter was, and she asked how do you know if everything is spelled right before you hit print on it.

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Hey all!

Once upon a "dash one", somewhere between Op Sups (post crow magnon, more like late Mesoic Era - we did have digital watches!) in the EP's for Emergeny Operation of the Ramp and Door using the Manual Control Knob there were a few words wedged inbetween the positions - "Deplete Pressure". We were of the understanding that turn to Posit # (lets just say posit one to retract the locks), aux pump "ON", (locks retract) aux pump "OFF", "Deplete Pressure" then rotate to the next positon, aux pump "ON" (ramp opens), aux pump "OFF" "Deplete Pressure" The whole "deplete pressure" thing occured as you rotated the knob to the next position - just listen for the hiss' as you rotate the knob. At the time I was on the KDYS H-1's. Don't even recall which dash one change deleted that out. Nothing like a new dash one OS & SS free!

Rowdy (aka Fleagle)

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I found a ramp out of seqence today on a gunship...was some good training wiith a couple 3 levels to show them how to get the locks to retract and back in seqence. I have seen the outcome of someone raising the ramp with those locks extended as well not a good site to see.

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3N = 6N, no doubt and no harm, if the next to use the knob is a positive guy.

For turning the knob counter clockwise:-Ref.1 (TO 1C-130H-2-52JG-30-2)

CAUTION Make sure rotation of cargo ramp manual control knob is in clockwise direction to prevent possible valve sequencing problems and subsequent damage to the ramp actuation system.

Ref.2 (Command Aircraft Systems Training)

This knob should only be rotated in a clockwise direction to avoid the control valves being thrown out of sequence.

Ref.3 Service News vol.19 no.1 Ramp Open With Hooks Extended: :eek: :(

This condition may suddenly appear, as if from nowhere, during manual operation of the ramp. It is usually caused by rotating the ramp control knob in the wrong direction ---.

Here is a good rule to follow whenever you operate the ramp manually:

When using the manual ramp control, be sure to rotate the knob only in a clockwise direction. This will ensure that the indicated position will remain in sequence with the internal valves.

Finally I believe that with a system having a package of valves and a package of one way check valves a combined with restrictor valves and relief valves we should follow blindly what the old guys said.(6N-clockwise)

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Ramp open with locks extended is easy to fix. Put the manual control knob in a nuetral position, 3N or 6N, turn on the aux pump and take the ramp control switch to raise. Providing the wiring is correct, the locks will retract before the ramp raises. I check that function on every FCF preflight. The book doesn't call for that check but then again it doesn't have me check the ramp lock bellcrank switch on the door warning system either but I do anyway and have found lots of them malfunctioning.

Lets say that the ramp is in the ADS position and the knob is in the proper position when you approach it (3N) and you rotate it backwards (counterclock-wise) as soon as you hit position 5 the ramp locks are going to extend. Now you got the ramp sequence control valve out of rig with the doghouse linkage, and your stuck with the ramp in the ADS position with the locks extended. Not always an easy job to fix and not a quick way to make friends with the A/R troops and aircraft DCC. Just follow the T.O. and all will be well.
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Yep, almost every sloping longeron has a gash in it from somebody screwing this up and trying to fix it without any understanding of how the system works. Provided you have power on the aircraft this is an easy fix, go to 3N or 6N and take the ramp control switch to raise. If you don't you just need to put the manual knob in 4 and somehow restrain the ramp from coming up until the locks retract. I've used chocks or a couple of fat guys to provide the necessary resistance.

I found a ramp out of seqence today on a gunship...was some good training wiith a couple 3 levels to show them how to get the locks to retract and back in seqence. I have seen the outcome of someone raising the ramp with those locks extended as well not a good site to see.
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  • 4 months later...

I think putting the knob in 6N like everyone is taught is good enough and nothing else needs thought into it. You can turn the know counter clockwise with no ill effect as stated but when the out of sequence ogre rears it's ugly head you have to deal with the crew chief and he/she won't be happy.

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1 disengages the lock...and 2 supplies the hyd to lower ramp..well u need to practically do it ur self for once and u'll understand how it goes..u can go counter clock wise but to open the ramp u'll have to go more clicks to reach 1..at no 6 and three the hyd supply is cut off..thus making it safe for any accidental movement.this N means neutral.

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  • 1 month later...

3N and 6N are both neutral positions for the valve. It doesn't matter which position you leave it in. Some may have a preference, but either is fine. Turning the knob counter-clockwise has nothing to do with the sequencing of linkage in the "doghouse". This only affects the sequencing in the valve. If you were to turn the knob counter-clockwise and mess up the sequencing, you would either rotate the knob clockwise serval times to fix the sequencing or change the ramp control manifold. Nothing would need to be done to the doghouse linkage.

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