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LAPES Tank Speed Record?


TSgtRet
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Another thread here prompted a memory. When I was at Pope I remember a picture (think it was at 3rd Aerial Port) of a big ball of metal that used to be a tank. The story was that it happened during a LAPES on Bragg someplace, no chutes or a "bad bounce" or something similar. Anyone have any memory of this? It was around the 73-75 time frame.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My old brain remembers this. Army exercise and we dropped about 6 Tanks.

All the crews dropping Lapes were from Little Rock. Story I heard from loadmasters that night as we were sitting at the bar went this way. Everything went just like it was suppose to but load hung up in the rails. Pilot pushed all the power in and started climbing at about 3 to 5 hundred feet the load departed A/C and went nose first into the ground. Picture was on front page of fayettenams newspaper the next morning.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 6 months later...

I recall being told about this incident in about 1973-74. My first operational assignment out of NAV school was to the 48th TAS at Forbes. When Forbes was closed, the 48th transferred to Little Rock. I "traded" with another NAV and went with the 47th TAS to Dyess (we became the 774th TAS). I must have been told about this incident by someone who was still with the (former) 48th TAS at Little Rock. To the best of my recollection-----

Three C-130Es from the (former) 48th out of Little Rock went to Pope AFB to demonstrate our capabilities of LAPES dropping three Army tanks with Army and Air Force Generals in attendance. One of the drops worked as it should have. During another drop, the tank tumbled down the drop zone and was destroyed.

The third drop was the subject of this thread. My understanding is that the NAV was on "hot mike" when he called "green light" for the tank to be released. The co-pilot turned on the green light switch. However, the loadmaster did not have his "hot mike" switch activated, so he did not hear the NAV say "green light." As we know, the loadmaster was not supposed to release a load until he both heard "green light" and saw the green light. Since he did not hear "green light" he did not release the tank. After a few seconds, the AC realized the tank had not been released. So, he started a climb to get some altitude for safety reasons. However, at about 300-400 feet, he said, "Load, did you hear 'green light'?" The green light was still on and now the loadmaster also heard "green light," so he released the tank. Result: The second tank of the day destroyed. Not a good day.........

Crew error was the finding. I recall it was a fundamental rule for the aircrew that the words "green light" were never to be used during a drop mission except by the NAV when calling for the "green light" to actually drop a load.

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I recall being told about this incident in about 1973-74. My first operational assignment out of NAV school was to the 48th TAS at Forbes. When Forbes was closed, the 48th transferred to Little Rock. I "traded" with another NAV and went with the 47th TAS to Dyess (we became the 774th TAS). I must have been told about this incident by someone who was still with the (former) 48th TAS at Little Rock. To the best of my recollection-----

Three C-130Es from the (former) 48th out of Little Rock went to Pope AFB to demonstrate our capabilities of LAPES dropping three Army tanks with Army and Air Force Generals in attendance. One of the drops worked as it should have. During another drop, the tank tumbled down the drop zone and was destroyed.

The third drop was the subject of this thread. My understanding is that the NAV was on "hot mike" when he called "green light" for the tank to be released. The co-pilot turned on the green light switch. However, the loadmaster did not have his "hot mike" switch activated, so he did not hear the NAV say "green light." As we know, the loadmaster was not supposed to release a load until he both heard "green light" and saw the green light. Since he did not hear "green light" he did not release the tank. After a few seconds, the AC realized the tank had not been released. So, he started a climb to get some altitude for safety reasons. However, at about 300-400 feet, he said, "Load, did you hear 'green light'?" The green light was still on and now the loadmaster also heard "green light," so he released the tank. Result: The second tank of the day destroyed. Not a good day.........

Crew error was the finding. I recall it was a fundamental rule for the aircrew that the words "green light" were never to be used during a drop mission except by the NAV when calling for the "green light" to actually drop a load.

This may explane the origan of the "green game" we used to play on 141 airdrop msn's. Any use of the word green in any context, at anytime from leaving the chocks at home station to return to home station constitutes buying a round of beer as a "punisment". The fun part was trying to get formation lead to say Greensboro instead of the icode during departure routing readback from ATC.

--Jerry "fenmonster" Fenwick

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Another Lapes disaster ocurred in 1966 during a NATO exercise in Saragoza Spain. This is solely from memory, so correct me if I don't have it 100% correct. Most of us were 346th / 347th on cross-switch to Evereaux or maybe Mildenhall by then. There was to be a tandem drop involving a Jeep and communications trailer. First extraction was to be the jeep with the second chute deployed by the first extraction. So the story went the second load didn't have an extraction chute and the head L/M decided in the interest of getting the job done, to just chain the two together. Obvious result was no adjustment time for weight loss of first load and the second pallet went out higher than the first and nosed in flipping both loads over and over. Total loss of jeep and communications trailer and serious issue for crew; especially L/M for not following proper procedures. I was in Athens on a Turkey Trot when the incident went down so I heard it second hand. Anybody else remember this one?

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The third drop was the subject of this thread. My understanding is that the NAV was on "hot mike" when he called "green light" for the tank to be released. The co-pilot turned on the green light switch. However, the loadmaster did not have his "hot mike" switch activated, so he did not hear the NAV say "green light."

I flew LAPES with the 36th and don't recall having a "hot mike switch ." All I can recall is the headsets in the back only had "push-to-talk listen to inter-com." The only hiot mikes I remember where in the front of the bus. Probably a good thing, too, because, sombody may have gotten their feelings hurt by comments made tryin' to hang another extraction chute or TD bundle in the bomb shackle while bein' thrown all over the cargo compartment. I believe I may have made a reference or two about the canine ancestry or illigitimacy of certain pilots from time to time. I hope i am, at this late date, forgiven!!!!!!LOL Sorry about the other post, punched it out before i was ready!!!!

Giz

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No hot mike back there but seem to remember a call button. Been a LONG time.

Yeah, that's what I remember, too. Now i know this is spreadin' off the original post, but my mind gets stimulated from time to time from this great site and bunch of people and i seem to recall this.......A control knob, I guess sorta like a rheostat, on the headset junction box by the crew entrance door, that would turn if the corresponding one in the cockpit was turned. When i was in CTF at Langley, in '70, the ground instructor we had, I can't for the life of me remember his name, but he put you in mind of Bud Kates, who was a TV weather or sports guy down there then. Anyway, he showed us this and said it could be used to amuse people, by sayin' it operated by telepathy or something. Maybe i am just senile or whatever. Maybe 26 years of runnin' inot places everybody else was runnin' OUT of is finally takin' a toll. Thanks for toleratin' me

Giz

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Got a laugh when I read about your running into places everyone was running out of then rembered that you are a retired fireman. Wasen't so funny then.

SECOND best job I ever had, just was not smart enough to keep the BEST one when ihad the chance.

Giz

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  • 2 weeks later...

I remeber once during an ORI out of Little Rock we dropped a tank and it went ass over tea kettle down the strip destroying it. aftwards the Army accused me of stealing a 50 cal from the tank before it was dropped. I told them sure...it was in my wall locker....idiots.

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Well, what did you do with the 50 cal. Rick?

Probably still in his wall locker

I did a LAPES drop at Bragg one time, it was a communications jeep, with all kinds of radios and stuff on it. Drogue went out fine, extraction chutes opened just like advertised,and then for some reason they separated from the load, it went barrelin' down the DZ, hit a ditch and just wadded up...............Never learned why that happened. I bet that was a rather expensive 'Oh shit". Seems to me it was done for some congressmen or some VIP's.IDID hear that it was a last minute rig, because they wanted somethin' a little heavier than just a Jeep to drop, so they commandeered this one. It was rigged by Army, who did most of the rigging down there, right??

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This may explane the origan of the "green game" we used to play on 141 airdrop msn's. Any use of the word green in any context, at anytime from leaving the chocks at home station to return to home station constitutes buying a round of beer as a "punisment".

When I was hauling trash with the 37th in West Germany, the word green was a serious no no and could result in major financial damage at the bar!!

So it wasnt really restricted to 141's.

Most places had a special qual and training for LAPES, for me in the 37th my "training, and special qual" consisted of "Your doing Lapes tommorow, read chapter 37" (MACR 55-130). Boy that sucked, but once I got used to it, Lapes was fun as hell.

The magnificent "Duke Bender" created a pretty good international incident there in Germany.

They tried to do an actual with a triple heavy (36K) and had a "negative transfer, negative jettison" (or somthing like that) and they started the climb out from Geiblestat, and as soon as they cleared the airfield it was "Load Clear" - right into an Opel dealership!!!!!!!

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Another Lapes disaster occurred in 1966 during a NATO exercise in Saragoza Spain. This is solely from memory, so correct me if I don't have it 100% correct. Most of us were 346th / 347th on cross-switch to Evereaux or maybe Mildenhall by then. There was to be a tandem drop involving a Jeep and communications trailer. First extraction was to be the jeep with the second chute deployed by the first extraction. So the story went the second load didn't have an extraction chute and the head L/M decided in the interest of getting the job done, to just chain the two together. Obvious result was no adjustment time for weight loss of first load and the second pallet went out higher than the first and nosed in flipping both loads over and over. Total loss of jeep and communications trailer and serious issue for crew; especially L/M for not following proper procedures. I was in Athens on a Turkey Trot when the incident went down so I heard it second hand. Anybody else remember this one?

I remember something about it being the Chaplains jeep - they were one short and he offered his to make up the numbers... we did a triple (all Jeeps) that day and didn't have a problem (thanks to the Man upstairs!)..

Jim Houston

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  • 1 month later...

I remember a LAPES on Bragg in that timeframe. We were transported to a remote landing strip with bleachers. There was a company of infantry and a battery seated for a demo (about 300 of us).We had the bleacher closest to the strip. After a big speech on how LAPES will revolutionize combat on the battlefields of the future. The C-130 started it's approach at full speed.Wheels down barely touching the landing strip. The LAPES started a little late by my guestimate, the drogue chute deployed fine. The drogue did not immediately deploy the main chute.The main finally deploys pulling the load from the aircraft, but the risers are all twisted up. The plane passes the stand not 20 ft to my right, engines full on. The sheridan skids about 10 ft and then it starts to tumble breaking free of it's skid it veers off the landing strip and heads for our bleacher. It looked like a charging bull elephant heading right for us. The funny thing is nobody moved. At the time the 82nd was living outside on field duty 5 days a week, 8 months out of a year, w/o reprieve(20 hr days). When we were in from the field we ran 5 miles a day at an all out run and spent 14-16 hrs a day in the motor pool, or jumping 5-10 times to get caught up for jump pay. The thought of being killed by a charging tank seemed almost appealing. The tank tumbled to within 25 ft of the stand and stopped standing straight up with it's gun jammed in the ground.

We all laughed having escaped death by training another day!

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I was on C-141s at Travis, the 86th MAS. We were dropping an old jeep on a DZ South of the base, the jeep had been dropped hundreds of time and looked it. When the droge chute was released from the shackle it opened but did not cut the strap, we climbed a little and headed back to Travis. The head loadmaster had edged by the jeep and was reaching out to cut the drogue away when the strap cut and the extraction chute opened. The jeep and pallet hit several high power lines and cut power for a a big part of the valley, i remember hearing that the paperwork on that one was extinsive.

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