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New 'milk stool' design may save dollars, backs


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You are probably right, RR. I can't remember the name we had for them. Only used a few times, seems to me they were stowed in the door above where the vehicle ramps went. As I recall, they were rather heavy for their size, that's probably why they diodn't get used that much.

Giz

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You are probably right, RR. I can't remember the name we had for them. Only used a few times, seems to me they were stowed in the door above where the vehicle ramps went. As I recall, they were rather heavy for their size, that's probably why they didn't get used that much.

Giz

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In SEA I almost always had 5 empty pallets on the ramp...Still can't come up with a spot in my mind as to where I would've stowed one of those wooden milk stools (worked fine when they were available, but, I sure would not have wanted to lug it around the aircraft...). I know, maybe in the armored loadmasters' chair @ 245...(I'd most likely sit in it now...but, never did then, once they showed up, in `68-69? I do remember having to add, what~1,000 lbs for flight deck armor and our chair, when they did install it...I do remember sitting, from time to time, on a tie down chain barrel on top of my flak vest, that some of CC's had up by 245, but that was only because my flak vest didn't cover considered THEN, the most important part of my body...

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The Aft Fusalage support has never been replaced as they were never used..... well almost never.

The Ramp support was a POS that was a pain in the ar$e so the wood version (of the "ramp support") was introduced.

NATOPS1 - I might have been a FE but I helped push a lot of pallets when we flew support for the radar sites in Alaska, and a "milk stool" was used under the ramp pad when the ramp was lowered horizontally. It was pyramid shaped like in the picture I posted. It was typically strapped to the ramp. It had 1 or 2 extra wooden pads (attached with web strapping) that were used when the ramp height didn't quite match the loader height.

gizzard - I flew a number of bladder birds missions myself, mostly during major exercises in Alaska, but once to Guatamala during a earthquake relief in '75. I believe that the ramp had a max weight limit that could be put there, and the pumps assembly that you're talking about was less than that max limit. I was talking about pushing heavy pallets over the ramp from a forklift or K-Loader. Those pallets surely exceeded the max ramp weight and put a hell of a load on the ADS arms, and could have maybe overloaded them. That's what the milk stools (as we called them), were used to prevent.

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Oh I agree with you, George......that's what i had in mind also. I never really thought about the loads ont her ADS arms, but then again we airdropped way heavy stuff across them, don't know how much load or for how long they were exposed to the loadings. It was the content of my training that said the purpose milk stool or other device was to keep the aircraft from tilting back from the load on the ramp..............

as for the bladders, how much fuel was in them? I cannot remember for the life of me, but it seems like around 30k pounds or so??? I got these as my first mission as a primary loadmaster on some bare-base gaggle......................I sure was glad I had the benefit of having some of the best instructors in TAC, so I had an idea of what to do........... They were outstanding...........

Giz

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Armored Chair that came along with hardening the flight deck. The Armored Loadmaster's Chair" bolted down pretty much over the top of the 463 sequential lock and emergency release control for the dual rails.If I remember right, they added the flight deck armor sometime after Tet 68 as the armor weren't in any of the planes I was on during Tet and They must have pulled the Armored chair out after August 1970 as the armored chair was still there when I came back to the states from the 346th...I would have liked an Armored Paratroop door tho, as that's where I spent most of my time...

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NATOPS1 - I might have been a FE but I helped push a lot of pallets when we flew support for the radar sites in Alaska, and a "milk stool" was used under the ramp pad when the ramp was lowered horizontally. It was pyramid shaped like in the picture I posted. It was typically strapped to the ramp. It had 1 or 2 extra wooden pads (attached with web strapping) that were used when the ramp height didn't quite match the loader height.

We use the same one... Just pointing out there was another "Milk Stool" and an original ramp support and maybe somewhere along the line the terms were interchangable. Thats all...

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I know I never carried any type of milk stool, but used chocks many times. Saw a bird setting on its' tail at Taipei one time, not a pretty sight. I flew with another loadmaster one time that coiled up a bunch of chains and sat on them when doing drops and An Loc, I never thought about doing that, but of course when we were young nothing could happen to us. I spent most of might time in flight wedge in the left troop door.

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The slicks don't have any chair for the loadmaster, except for the H3s and probably Js. For combat ops, LMs are in the paratroop doors, scanning for threats. Some people use straps (as a sling) and some use a piece of plywood with holes where straps go and sling it as seats. The powers that be are promising a seat for us, along with a new milkstool. I've noticed that Spec Ops has an approved chair that they are getting, but I don't think that's intended for use on slicks. I'm pretty sure I've even seen photos of a prototype seat/paratroop door for USCG scanners. It's got a huge, plastic window.

As for ramp weight- Unsupported is 2,000 lbs max weight across the ramp. Above that, you are supposed to use the milkstool.

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Oh I agree with you, George......that's what i had in mind also. I never really thought about the loads ont her ADS arms, but then again we airdropped way heavy stuff across them, don't know how much load or for how long they were exposed to the loadings. It was the content of my training that said the purpose milk stool or other device was to keep the aircraft from tilting back from the load on the ramp..............

as for the bladders, how much fuel was in them? I cannot remember for the life of me, but it seems like around 30k pounds or so??? I got these as my first mission as a primary loadmaster on some bare-base gaggle......................I sure was glad I had the benefit of having some of the best instructors in TAC, so I had an idea of what to do........... They were outstanding...........

Giz

gizzard, not sure of the exact weight but it was around 30k. We left LRF with the bladders empty and landed at Kelly to fill them and the bird up. Put max fuel in bird, so we were pushing 175k with an E model. We had to have enough fuel to fly down to Tapachula, Mexico, offload the gas for the rescue helicopters, etc., for the earthquake relief and then make it back to USA. Taking off out of Kelly AFB with the temp 70 or so, the bird was barely climbing. If we had lost an engine we probably would have been a smoking hole in San Antonio.

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  • 1 month later...

Our aircraft all carry their own milk stools. The old E's down at the rock I flew on all had their own too, however I remember theirs being much lighter-wood drying out over time possibly? Anyway it does take a little time and effort to lug the thing over and around even just training airdrop loads...especially alone. Tripping over lashings, alternate forward barriers, BSA's, under static lines, etc.

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Hey Giz, those thingies on the C-141 were called tip-over struts and they were filled with Hyd. fluid. They were very simple to operate...simply open the door , pull out the safety pin pull out the strut and let it swing down. When it scoped out and touched the ground you just turned the little valve to trap the fluid in the extended strut and bingo!...the old star lizard was set to load. It had one on each side of the aft fusealage. A few were left down and went bye bye after takeoff. Bill

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Hey Giz, those thingies on the C-141 were called tip-over struts and they were filled with Hyd. fluid. They were very simple to operate...simply open the door , pull out the safety pin pull out the strut and let it swing down. When it scoped out and touched the ground you just turned the little valve to trap the fluid in the extended strut and bingo!...the old star lizard was set to load. It had one on each side of the aft fusealage. A few were left down and went bye bye after takeoff. Bill

I don't mean to nit pick this....but I will. ;) Actually they were serviced with fuel. Yep fuel. Hydraulic fluid was too cold to function in them after landing from a prolonged cruise at high altitude.

Jerry "Fenmonster" Fenwick

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I thought that was fuel in the 141 struts...because if you compressed them at an angle (wrong) to un-install them, the stuff would leak out all over. I was surprised how durable the milkstools were after seeing so many thrown out troop doors buy pissed off loads.

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Hey no problem Jerry. I was FE on them at Charleston and my job was only to make sure they were up and stowed on my walkaround. I was probably taught they had fuel in them but that was in 1974 so a lot has gone south since then ha ha. But, they sure beat the old 130 milk stool. Bill :)

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