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Viet A


bobdaley
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Tried to post this a couple of times no luck. last try.

It is about an A model preserved at Khe Sanh.

My guess one of the A's we gave to the Viets?

Bob

hello all,this aircraft is i believe 56-0532,formerly at Tan Son Nhut airport near saigon-it was moved as a museum exhibit to khe sanh area earlier this year-it was formerly 56-0532 tailcode GZN of the 435 Transport Squadron of the Republic Of Viet Nam Air Force.

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There hasn't been a lot of comments made on these pictures, so I'm wondering if I'm the only one that finds this a bit disconcerting. There sits a perfectly fine C -130 on display by the communist government of Vietnam. OK, so maybe it's not "perfectly fine", but they tried thier darndest to destroy every one of them that they could, along with the crews that manned them, and here one sits. Are they rubbing our noses in it? I find this disturbing.....

tinwhistle

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I got a couple of interesting comments, a picture and a question.

There have been about 7 A models in sad shape on the South Cargo ramp at TSN for years. The Viets are rebuilding the South Cargo ramp and there was a report that all the A's are now gone but I looked at a 2012 Google map and 5 seem to be still there. Any comments? I got a picture of what we think is 532 being prepped to go to Khe Sanh.

I built an Excel file on the A models we gave to SVAF as part of Project Enhance Plus in 1972. Unfortunately I don't know how to post it. We gave 32 A's, 16 ANG and 16 AFRES to the SVAF. 3 Roman nosed 54 models were delivered but later swapped for regular A's. 15 of the 32 came back after the fall in 1975 some were lost and the rest stored at TSN. Most of the returned aircraft went to the Boneyard.

They were operated by 2 SVAF Sqdns One had codes HC_ and one GZ_. Can anyone tie up the USAF tail codes and the SVAF tail codes( I have a few of them)

Bob

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What I don't understand, is the United States Air Force on the side of the fuselage. Why would they put that on it as it didn't have that on there originally did it??

Maybe Chris is right about the "rubbing noses" comment!!!

Under what context is it being displayed is my question???

Ken

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What I don't understand, is the United States Air Force on the side of the fuselage. Why would they put that on it as it didn't have that on there originally did it??

Ken

Maybe they consider it a war trophy?

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I built an Excel file on the A models we gave to SVAF as part of Project Enhance Plus in 1972. Unfortunately I don't know how to post it.

You can attach it to a post if you want or e-mail it to me and I will ad it to the files section or we can do both if you wish.

Casey

I e mailed it and maybe you could attach it to my post, Thanks Bob

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15 of the 32 came back after the fall in 1975 some were lost and the rest stored at TSN. Most of the returned aircraft went to the Boneyard.

Bob,

Can you elaborate on "came back after the fall?" Were they given back? If so, by who? The old government? The new government? Did crews defect with them after the fall?

Casey

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A large number were flown out to Thailand by South Vietnamese crews trying to escape with as many people as they could carry.

By the end of the day on April 29, 1975, 165 VNAF aircraft were at U Tapao, including 31 F-5s, 27 A-37 Dragonflys, nine C-130A Hercules transports, 45 UH-1 Bell helicopters, 16 C-47s, 11 A-1E and H Skyraiders, six C-7A Caribou transports, three AC-119 gunships, 14 Cessna U-17 Skywagons, three O-1 Bird Dogs, and a handful of civilian aircraft.

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A large number were flown out to Thailand by South Vietnamese crews trying to escape with as many people as they could carry.

By the end of the day on April 29, 1975, 165 VNAF aircraft were at U Tapao, including 31 F-5s, 27 A-37 Dragonflys, nine C-130A Hercules transports, 45 UH-1 Bell helicopters, 16 C-47s, 11 A-1E and H Skyraiders, six C-7A Caribou transports, three AC-119 gunships, 14 Cessna U-17 Skywagons, three O-1 Bird Dogs, and a handful of civilian aircraft.

Was what I figured had happened. Thanks for the quick response.

Casey

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And how many MiGs, Sukois, Zeroes or Messerschmitts are there in museums across the US, marked incorrectly to represent a foes from our past? How is this any different?

I guess the question I would have is since they were given to them and they supposedly used them, why would they have the USAF markings still on them?

Now if they were displaying them as war trophies, that would make sense to re mark them!!

I have never seen any of the above foreign aircraft in the US but I would think we (the U.S.) would restore them to original configurations including paint jobs!

Of course, like I said I have never seen any foreign planes in museums so I don't know if they are marked incorrectly.

Ken

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This one stretches me in all directions, but I have to say that in the Air Force museum, The Smithsonian's two aviation museums, and the royal war museum,as well as several flying groups, all have planes that at one time or other inflicted pain, destruction and intimidation on the home countries, and are marked in the insignia, etc of the enemy nations.. Guess this is no different, but, still, as Chris says, is it a slap at us??? Should we remove the iron cross and swastika from the ME-262 at Wright pat, or the Rising sun off the Zero or whatever???? Remember, the assholes who wanted the display of the Enola Gay to be an apology to the Japs.......I just never ever thought of one of OUR planes bein' on display in some other former(?) enemy country....... Just my thoughts

Giz

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This one stretches me in all directions, but I have to say that in the Air Force museum, The Smithsonian's two aviation museums, and the royal war museum,as well as several flying groups, all have planes that at one time or other inflicted pain, destruction and intimidation on the home countries, and are marked in the insignia, etc of the enemy nations.. Guess this is no different, but, still, as Chris says, is it a slap at us??? Should we remove the iron cross and swastika from the ME-262 at Wright pat, or the Rising sun off the Zero or whatever???? Remember, the assholes who wanted the display of the Enola Gay to be an apology to the Japs.......I just never ever thought of one of OUR planes bein' on display in some other former(?) enemy country....... Just my thoughts

Giz

Me thinks there is a difference in the aircraft we display in our museums etc. That being, "we defeated" Facism, Nazism, and the Empire of the Rising Sun. Mussolini was killed while trying to escape, Hitler committed suicide, and Hirohito was reduced to a figure head under house arrest, and thier respective governments dismantled. The United States extradited itself from South Vietnam and returned home of it's own volition; a program called "Vietnamization". Now, history still has not sorted out this mess, but our government still stands, our line of presidents is still intact. There is one constant here: 37 years after the fact, debate still rages within the United States over the Vietnam War. Truely amazing!!!!!

tinwhistle (Chris)

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Chris,

99.9% of the time, I agree with your views with no reservations. On this subject, though, I respectfully beg to differ. I also spent the majority of my 18 months at Clark AB TDY to SEA. Reflecting back over these 40 some years, I have my questions about our intentions in Vietnam. I think it was mostly politically motivated.

With the easing of economic and political sanctions against Vietnam, I have a feeling the the A-model and the CH-53(?) on display at Khe Sahn might be more of a tribute to the airplanes and crews who risked (and lost ) their lives to resupply the base -- rather than some sort of "slap in the face" of these crews. Otherwise, why would the Vietnamese choose Khe Sahn as the location to display these airplanes in US markings?

Believe me, I'm not trying to start a pissing contest -- just adding my 2¢

Don R.

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Me thinks there is a difference in the aircraft we display in our museums etc. That being, "we defeated" Facism, Nazism, and the Empire of the Rising Sun. Mussolini was killed while trying to escape, Hitler committed suicide, and Hirohito was reduced to a figure head under house arrest, and thier respective governments dismantled. The United States extradited itself from South Vietnam and returned home of it's own volition; a program called "Vietnamization". Now, history still has not sorted out this mess, but our government still stands, our line of presidents is still intact. There is one constant here: 37 years after the fact, debate still rages within the United States over the Vietnam War. Truely amazing!!!!!

tinwhistle (Chris)

I understand your position, Chris, and agree to a large extent, but if you think that the Communist Vietnamese don't think they beat us, what do you think they DO think???????? I, too, do not fully understand why we were there, what would have happened had we not been, but I do know this we did NOT lose that war, but we sure as hell did not WIN it!!!!! A lot of the issues our society has now is directly traceable back to the way the media manipulated the whole thing and how society changed.............I think I would rather see display like this one than a bunch of trash burnin' our flag.....

Giz

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Dullness, does not stand a chance around here!!! Actually, I agree with DC10FE and Giz. The whole idea of one of our Herks sitting there like that sent me reeling. However, I'm begining to think it ain't so bad. They did a nice job of the display, that's for sure!!

Just for the record, if someone were to offer me a trip to "South" Vietnam, I'd take it. It would do me good to see that pretty country at peace (I think)......

tinwhistle (Chris)

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Hey, think of this.......every damn time one of them sees that bird, they KNOW what it means, and I hope they realize, had we not been handcuffed by incompetent, chicken-shit leaders, just exactly what may have rained down on them. Just ask Japan and Germany.......... The irony I see in this is.......THEY have a herk on display, where are the ones for the Smithsonian, the Hampton Air Museum, or ( at least right now0 the Air Force museum?????

One other thought that hit me, and I'll move on, think what could have happened if the North Vietnamese had decided to throw their Migs and such at the herks, Hueys, Chinooks, etc????? Wonder why not, there were enough of them operating close to their bases to have been used....

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I find it really "unique" that The Socialist Republic of Viet Nam displayed the Herk at Khe Sanh...Khe Sanh was suppose to be Our Dien Bien Phu...With C130s, C123s & helicopters providing ALL of the resupply to the Marines during the siege of Khe Sanh (~mid/late dec '67 thru ~earlyapr '68)....after the Marine 130 crashed on the runway only 123's were allowed to land. 130s' airdropped CDS (I only air landed and then air dropped CDS during the actual siege; don't recall any LAPES (before 1528) or GPES (A models only) right during the actual siege beginning the week before TET '68...The NVA, with ample support from the American Media (sorry), really thought that they could overrun Khe Sanh and drive us right out of the country during TET that started 30 Jan '68...BUT it was the Marines (outgunned at least ten to one...) Being Air Suppled beans & bullets by C130s' (with able help from 123's & chinooks..) that held Khe Sanh and, then, the NVA suddenly, & almost overnight, pulled out of the mountains around Khe Sanh. I think partially because, I believe that the 101st airborne (& the Air Cav) were on their way in to relieve the Marines at Khe Sanh, Then in April '68, after the NVA was totally driven off, Westmoreland (&LBJ) abandoned Khe Sanh (we went back in & re-opened the base '70-'71`) for whatever reason (mindless)...The Vietnamese could have displayed the 130 at Kham Duc, for instance, where we lost 130s' during an evacuation of the FOB, but they chose Khe Sanh; I find that VERY interesting...I got a kick out of the blurb under the A model picture about the "atmospheric experience" Ha! They should have air-landed in there (or Dong Ha or Quang Tri...) in the middle of the night...They are three of the eeriest places I ever went into over there... As far as where Vietnam is today vs April 1975 (& North Vietnam from 1945...) Most of our Wind Turbine blades in the USA are from VietNam...My grandsons' "Happy Meal" toy came from VietNam...Why is VietNam slowly, but surely, moving away from communism... What part did the VietNam War play in this eventual transformation...Was it really all in vain...

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Didn't mean to kick over an ant's nest here; nor do I intend to insult anyone here who was there. Just looking for perspective.

I guess the question I would have is since they were given to them and they supposedly used them, why would they have the USAF markings still on them?

Now if they were displaying them as war trophies, that would make sense to re mark them!!

Kind of the way I saw it when I asked the question. We were their most difficult foe, the C-130 is an iconic American aircraft, and they had one left over from when they overran the South. Seemed simple enough to me, at least when I asked the question.

We had the option, the North didn't. None of our aircraft were ever captured by them in good enough condition to use like that. They had to make do with a forty year old hulk.

As for incorrectly marked aircraft, I know warbird carry a lot of names and numbers that don't match the aircraft's actual history. Museums, I think, are probably more true to the history of a given artifiact, but I wouldn;t put it past them to paint up an aircraft to match the numbers and paint job of a famous axis ace to draw in more tourists.

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