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Anybody Ready to Talk Yet?


SamMcGowan
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Is there anybody ready to talk about the 35th TCS crew that was shot down off the coast of North Korea on August 6, 1963 yet? Several people who were at Naha at the time have told me bits and pieces of the story but a lot of people are still not willing to admit that it even happened. What is known is that a 35th crew was lost over the Sea of Japan just off of North Korea while on an early leaflet mission. The offical history of the Jilli mission reveals that the 35th was given responsibility for developing a leaflet mission in \"late 1963\" but goes on to say that drops were inexplicably made with C-47s until early 1965. A former Naha officer told me that he remembered an article in the Naha newspaper about a C-130 being shot down by North Korean fighters but that he was told it was one of the Yokota ELINT airplanes (which is the cover story that was spread around Naha.) Harry Sullivan recalled the incident when I was giving a Power Point presentation on C-130 history at the 2006 Troop Carrier/Tactical Airlift Homecoming in Galveston, and gave the name of the flight engineer - Red McCreary or McCreery or something similar. He said that the 35th had just come to Naha from Sewart a few weeks before, which goes along with what I was told when I was in the 35th in 1966. A friend of mine who was a 35th engineer told me a few weeks ago when we were in San Antonio that he had just arrived at Naha when the incident happened. He was assigned to the flight line and was supposed to get the next airplane to come available but after the airplane was shot down, but they gave it to the crew chief of the lost airplane and he was sent to the 35th and then to Sewart to train as a flight engineer instead.

The loss is shown on lists of airplanes shot down by North Korean fighters but is mysteriously identified only as an \"LT\" with the loss of six personnel, and most people assume it meant \"light transport\" when it actually meant \"leaflet transport.\"

I remember news accounts of a C-130 being shot down at the time, but the story was that the airplane strayed off course while on a flight out of Japan. (It would have had to have strayed way off course to have gotten close to North Korea!) It was mentioned in news accounts at the time of the North Korean shoot-down of Korean Airlines 007.

All of the US Cold War losses have been declassified except this one. My guess it is because it simply slipped through the cracks since the airplane was not an AFSS airplane and nobody has ever taken the time to have it declassified through the Freedom of Information Act.

The 35th transferred to Naha from Sewart in mid-1963. Actually, the squadron that transferred was the 345th but it became the 35th when it crossed into PACAF. The shoot-down took place within a few weeks after the squadron arrived on base at Naha.

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  • 10 months later...

I am getting older so my mind does not recall all of the details that I heard about the shootdown, I did read a translated version of the North Korean mig pilots conversation all I can recall about that was the conversation on the size of the herky, and I had the belief that it was an A model. Sorry this is not much help. I am 78 years old and this happened more then 4o years ago.Also I heard about this in 1964 Ken

Edited by oldfe
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  • 9 months later...

Sam,

I find this interesting. I attempted to search for information about this incident over the years and never found anything. I was stationed at Dover AFB in 1970 working the Flight Line on C-133’s. My roommate Bill Dubois was a wonderful human being from Boston. He said his brother was killed on a C-130 after being shot down during a reconnaissance mission over North Korea. Bill was not one to fabricate stories. I lost touch with Bill over the years. After Dover Bill served at Clark and the last I talked to him, he was at Andrews AFB in 1981. I imagine that Bill would be 61 years old now and retired from the Air Force, but I haven’t been able to locate him. I believe Bill would be able to help you out if you locate him.

Jack

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Guys,

I was with the 345th when we transferred from Sewart to Naha in late June 1962. Which is a year earlier than your talking about. I do not recall this particular incident, however I have a feeling the missing plane was a B-Model out of Yokota.

John

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  • 3 weeks later...

It was not a B-model out of Yokota, although that story was spread around Naha after an article appeared in the local English-language paper about a C-130 being shot down by North Korean fighters. All of the Security Service losses have been de-classified. They never lost any of their C-130s.

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It was not a B-model out of Yokota, although that story was spread around Naha after an article appeared in the local English-language paper about a C-130 being shot down by North Korean fighters. All of the Security Service losses have been de-classified. They never lost any of their C-130s.

Let me rephrase that comment - they never lost any of the Yokota planes. They did lose one out of Rhine Main in 1958 over Soviet Armenia.

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Sam,

I find this interesting. I attempted to search for information about this incident over the years and never found anything. I was stationed at Dover AFB in 1970 working the Flight Line on C-133’s. My roommate Bill Dubois was a wonderful human being from Boston. He said his brother was killed on a C-130 after being shot down during a reconnaissance mission over North Korea. Bill was not one to fabricate stories. I lost touch with Bill over the years. After Dover Bill served at Clark and the last I talked to him, he was at Andrews AFB in 1981. I imagine that Bill would be 61 years old now and retired from the Air Force, but I haven’t been able to locate him. I believe Bill would be able to help you out if you locate him.

Jack

This is interesting. I first heard that a C-130 had been shot down by North Korean fighters when a story appeared in the newspapers at the time. I had just enlisted and was finishing up at Lackland at the time of the August 6, 1963 mysterious loss. After I got to Pope I worked for a TSgt on the flight line who had come from Naha and he mentioned it. When I got to Naha in early 1965 and went on my first leaflet mission the AC mentioned it in his briefing. A few weeks later I was on a flight to Saigon on a stage mission and Henry Caudill, the flight mechanic, said something to me about it after we got downtown to our hotel room. It was also mentioned in an article at the time of the KAL 007 shoot-down in regard to airplanes that had been shot down by North Korea. I had no idea that the loss had been completely wiped off the records until fairly recently. I obtained a copy of the accident report of the airplane that was written off to a defueling fire. I find it hard to believe that an airplane would have been damaged to the point of destruction by a fuel fire that had been completely extinguished within five minutes from the time it started. The Army report on psy-war says Operation Jilli was started with the Army 7th Psy-Ops Group and the 35th Troop Carrier Squadron in "late 1963" but then claims it was flown with C-47s until 1965. Well, the 35th had no C-47s! The crews would have had to have been using base flight airplanes and there had to be a reason why. A myterious airplane labled simply as an "LT" was definitely lost to North Korean fighters on August 6, 1963.

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This is interesting. I first heard that a C-130 had been shot down by North Korean fighters when a story appeared in the newspapers at the time. I had just enlisted and was finishing up at Lackland at the time of the August 6, 1963 mysterious loss. After I got to Pope I worked for a TSgt on the flight line who had come from Naha and he mentioned it. When I got to Naha in early 1965 and went on my first leaflet mission the AC mentioned it in his briefing. A few weeks later I was on a flight to Saigon on a stage mission and Henry Caudill, the flight mechanic, said something to me about it after we got downtown to our hotel room. It was also mentioned in an article at the time of the KAL 007 shoot-down in regard to airplanes that had been shot down by North Korea. I had no idea that the loss had been completely wiped off the records until fairly recently. I obtained a copy of the accident report of the airplane that was written off to a defueling fire. I find it hard to believe that an airplane would have been damaged to the point of destruction by a fuel fire that had been completely extinguished within five minutes from the time it started. The Army report on psy-war says Operation Jilli was started with the Army 7th Psy-Ops Group and the 35th Troop Carrier Squadron in "late 1963" but then claims it was flown with C-47s until 1965. Well, the 35th had no C-47s! The crews would have had to have been using base flight airplanes and there had to be a reason why. A myterious airplane labled simply as an "LT" was definitely lost to North Korean fighters on August 6, 1963.

Sam,

The total loss of the C-130A at Naha during defueling is true. I was there when it happened.

John

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