paint for C-130E-I for Modelers

[gmat]

Does anyone know the names of the special paint used on early Combat Talons? I don\'t think that there would be a FS number for them. This is for Mark S who will be releasing a decal sheet of various Combat Talons.

1. He wants to know if there is a FS number

2. He list the colors as black and tan.

3. He mentions a short dash 7 and a long dash 15 engines.

Someone said that one color was SAC Bomber Tan, although it looked green. The tan on B-52s was a reddish brown and not like the green on Combat Talons. Mark has also gotten information that the dash 7 and dash 15 engines were of different length. I think he is refering to someone who has lengthened the engines to the Italeri C-130E/H kit, which was originally an AC-130A and has the A model dash 9 engines.

Can anyone help?

Thank you.

Grant matsuoka

[Skip Davenport]

The Talon 1 colors were Green and Black when I started flying them in 1978. The black was reported to be paint to seal cellars made by 3M and had a rough texture.

[mongo]

Thats right! we called them the black and green war machine. sorry dont know any code #s somebody from depot should have a clue maybe?

[mongo]

sweet! [img size=400]http://herkybirds.com/images/fbfiles/images/mc_130.jpg

[gmat]

Thanks for your comments,

I don\'t think that anyome can help me with the Federal Standard number for the paints. Nowadays, modelers like to quote FS numbers or FS equivalents for paints of the actual aircraft in order to find a suitable match from the modeling paints available.

He will use them to print a painting guide, sort of like what you might see in T.O. 1-1-4.

Can anyone comment about the engine lengths? I\'m sure that there was no difference between the -7s and -15s, but would like some more reputable authority for him see. There was an post in Aircraft Resource Center in the Jet section about the Combat Talon decals..

Hoping for the best,

Grant.

[Guest]

Davenport\'s statements are correct--the paint scheme was black and dark green, paint purchased from 3-M, normally used for cinder block and concrete structures. The paint had a rough texture which added drag to the airplane, and around 600 pounds of weight. It had an aggregate ingredient which resulted in the rough texture, almost like 320 grit sandpaper. But in the darkness, was very difficult to detect--visually.

There were also some Special Ops WC-123-Ks (First Flight) that also used this paint.

Later, all Talons were changed to the European I green/green/gray, and more recently changed to a two-tone gray.

This picture (one of my favorites) shows a Talon 1 with fresh black and dark green paint, in early morning sunlight.

[img size=600]http://herkybirds.com/images/fbfiles/images/Mod_70_600X400.jpg

[gmat]

Thank you TalonOneTF,

Some interesting information. Why was the First Flight WC-123-Ks prefixed with a W? I don\'t think that they had anything to do with weather reconnaisance. I think I\'ve seen early pictures of them as B models. That\'s the one with the dick antenna (sorry no disrespect intended) above the cockpit and the different camoflage, I think.

If anyone built a model of an early Combat Talon, what paint did you end up using?

Best wishes,

Grant

[Guest]

Why was the First Flight WC-123-Ks prefixed with a W? I don\'t think that they had anything to do with weather reconnaisance.

Ahh--your question jarred loose a few stale memory cells. The First Flight C-123Ks on-site at Nha Trang were referred to as \"Whiskey\" airplanes, and we did not use tail numbers, ie, \"Whiskey Alpha\", \"Whiskey Bravo\", \"Whiskey Charlie\", etc.

The Talon 1 C-130s were \"Romeo Alpha\", \"Romeo Bravo\", etc.

So the WC-123K was only a local designator, not official....

[gmat]

Thank you for the clear up.

If any are modelers reading this, there were three kits of the C-123 in 1\\72 scale.

The very old and hard to find AirModel vacuform kit that was rather basic, the injection molded Mach 2 kit from France that people complain about, and a resin kit from Magma models that was rather expensive. There is also a series of 1/144 scale kits from A Models from the Ukraine or Russia that would need work to fit together and detail up. Probably the best option is to slap the Mach 2 kit together and sand it smooth and not worry about the details.

Also,would the SEA Combat Talons have their numbers painted on the tail during the Son Tay raid era? The decal sheet lists the tail number of one of the aircraft and shows it on the tail.

Best wishes,

Grant

[HERCFE]

T56A-7 and -15 engine nacelles are identical. The defining difference between a -7 and -15 engine is that a -15 has hollowed out 3rd & 4th stage compressor blades. This allows for a higher operating TIT (turbine inlet temperature) resulting in greater torque available to the prop.

There are other subtle differences (not visible outside the nacelle) in things like the synchrophaser, TD system, oil cooler system, generators, hydraulic pumps, etc., but those are more aircraft specific rather than engine specific (H1s vs. H2s or H3s). Some older aircraft equipped with -15s (e.g., old H models and \"bionic Es\" ) have the same engine associated components as those aircraft equipped with the -7 (the good old E model).

Be well,

John \"The Manatee\" Haverstock

[spec13fe]

The gunships had a heat shield over the tailpipes,this could have made the nacelles look longer to some people.

Mike