wildweasel_pt

The thing is that training is no more than a control measure to reduce risk. Risk is opportunity, and eventhough the hazzard is always there we can reduce the opportunity to allow it to harm the mission by using that 4th step that the thinkers developed in the 90-902. ORM is way broad to reduce it to this. The principle is right and one need to adapt it to whatever his occupation/function is. Can you send me a copy of your matrix? Im curious to see how you guys did it. Every user will have his own different way to apply it. And allow me to correct something you said (thats my own opinion). WE can't never avoid risc. Its always there. We can try to eliminate hazzards. Thats how i see ORM as a tool to manage the risc inherent to the task, helping on deciding the course of action...

I completely understand and agree with all you said. Thats why my idea is to make a risk assessment table where you can enter with the probability and severity of the risk in question. This means that for low probability and low severity you have a low number on risk factor and so on (as it is in accordance with AFPAM 90-902) Of course that we can only add up the factors that apply, if you're not flyin VFR low level whats the purpose of adding the low ceiling factor? But nevertheless and to justify that those factors are relative and have to be weighed in different ways you may see how much X winds affect a flight if it is a flight for experienced pilots or if it is for training a rookie pilot, of course the probability is the same of having those X winds throughout the mission but the severity changes as its much more as a risc factor for the rookie flying. Other factors do not depend on probability as well like landing on unprepared surfaces when you are operating where there are only those kind of strips. It depends, thats why this is a dynamic process and the squadron should use every mean on its reach to lower these risks (implementing control measures - step 5 of the ORM process) in order to lower the decision level and allow for "easier" accomplishment of the mission/task. Take a look at this table, its just a idea but of course that those factors can only be weighed with experience and flying time and like i said before this has to be a dynamic process (6 step cycle like its suposed to be). Thanks for the input. BTW sorry about the fact that is in Portuguese but i think you'll be able to figure it out (severity on the left and probability on top)

Thank you again for the help on this. By the way, i don't know if you're an active duty military but do you know if the squadrons have a matrix for calculating ORM? Back in the 38s we used to have some numeric factors (X winds, nite flt, IMC, low level and some more) that we would add up and depending on the total, the Go / No Go decision would be taken either by the SUP/SOF, flt cmdr, DO, SQN CMDR ad so on. DO you guys flying hercs have something similar 2 that?

Thanks for the help. I'll take a look.

Hey SergF Do you by any chance know a guy called Mark Osbeck he should be a 1Lt by now? He did flt training with me in texas and last time i knew he was to be stationed with you guys on the Combat talon. Fred

Ronc Can you get me a copy of that pub? Thanks a lot. I think we have one in the SQN but its way outdated (like 20 years or so... )

Skip... I'd recommend you to take a look at this forum www.forum9gs.net Eventhough that its a portuguese forum, all of the posters speak english and you can find lots of info that you may consider useful or curious at least. Theres lots of info on the talons that you brought here. And some other goodies. just register and start blabbing that everyone will be welcoming you. You can even use me as a reference. They all know me. My user there is esq501. Take care...

Maaaaaaaaaaaannnnn Thats awesome... Really... I can't believe what you sayin'... Col Seabra is retired as 3 star General. Maj Silva i can't identify who it is but i can try to find out. What about Macário? Does that name ring a bell? I know that we had 12 of them (it was 6+6) they were put to rest in '93 if im not mistaken (we were supposed to buy the F-5 but that didn't happen afterall and they replaced T-33s) I didn't fly the white ones im way younger than that. I flew the PMP version of the T-38C in Laughlin AFB 3 years ago. I kinda experienced a little bit of everything. I started to be a NAV in C-130 in '99 and then i went to academy and i started to study for electronic engineering but that didn't fullfilled me so i went for pilot training and i went back to the very same squadron where i was a nav before. It took me 7 years to change seats I just hope it won't take that same time to change to the left He he. I'll try to find out about what you're asking for. PM me with some of your references (Age, full name and rank at the time, etc) Thanks

Hi Skip What pub is that one you just referred to?

Hi I completely understand that but what i was looking for was more of a structure to start with. My experience wit the USAF SOPs is only for the T-38C and that isn't applicable for the Herc. To be honest with you i was hoping to find a guideline for the developing of such a pub. If it already exists, and i know that every single Herc US squadron has one i know that they'll be properly done and as we say what is the purpose of re-inventing the wheel? Thanks for the input either way Fred

Try to take a look at baseops.net Lots of info there, especially regarding E model

No flight safety people hovering around here? This is a topic i'd like to discuss with somebody that is familiar with it. Does anyone tell me whats the latest date on AFPAM 90-902 (ORM tools and guidelines)? My version is from 2000. I believe that in the meantime an update must have been issued. Thanks

Isn't anyone there willing to give me a hand more on this? TIA

Thanks a lot for the input. I'll take a look at that.

Hi there Any of you guys in active duty uses an ORM matrix for mission evaluation purposes? (Go/No Go status)... Thanks

Anyone? :(

Hi guys My name is Fred and i'd like to ask you all for a favor if that is possible. But first allow me to introduce myself. Im a pilot with the 501SQN back in Portugal (we're the only herc squadron here). I did my flight training in Laughlin AFB (07-07, Falcons and Mothers) and came back to fly the herc. When i was back in the US we used a publication (T-6 and T-38), maybe the most important one (so important that we knew it by heart), that was the Standard Operational Procedures or SOPs, that like the name says, encompassed all the procedures to do in different phases of planning, flying, and all around the activity that we pilots do. The thing is... I was hoping to develop a manual similar to that one to use in my squadron in the very same way that we used to use back in flight training. I never flew in a US herc squadron so i do not know how you guys do it there but i think it might not be that different. So i was hoping that, and considering that is not a classified "manual" i could see how the US herc squadrons do it in order to compare and maybe adapt it to our operation back here. We operate our aircraft in a very flexible way (we have to, being the only herc squadron in my country), we qualify on general transport, SAR, tactical flights including airdrops (CDS, heavy, PDS, and used to but not anymore...LAPES). We operate from Africa to Afghanistan on detachment. For all of this i think that we're missing a very important pub like that one. Im developing it slowly but i think that woul be a valuable help if i could get the input from you guys that are flying it back there. If anyone is in the mood to give me a hand on this project please PM me. Any other references may be provided in order to certify that im the one im claiming to be... thanks for the patience on reading this and i hope that some guys will give me a push on this. TIA Fred Sousa 1Lt