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Aero Precision provides OEM part support for military aircraft operators across more than 20 aircraft

businessdr

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core_pfieldgroups_2

  • First Name
    Doug
  • Last Name
    Webster
  • core_pfield_13
    Travel, Corvettes, photography

core_pfieldgroups_3

  • core_pfield_11
    USAF: 1972-1993
    15 years management consulting experience consulting to federal agencies
    Served as Chief Financial Officer, US Department of Labor during G. W. Bush administration (Senate confirmed position).
    Senior Executive Service (SES), Department of Defense.
  • core_pfield_12
    Triangle, VA
  • Occupation
    Deputy Director, Defense Business Transformation Agency
  1. businessdr

    SEA

    Shadow, it is interesting how stories get garbled on the retelling. I was the nav on 1297. We landed and taxied to the hazardous cargo offloading area on the north side of the field where we offloaded the BLU-82s. I do not recall if we shut down engines or not, but I can imagine it was an engine running download. We then taxied to the south taxiway and were headed to pick up evacuees when we were hit on the taxiway.
  2. MHeflin, let me correct your story, or at least how I understand what you heard. It sounded like your story claimed the 21st TAS crew braked and evacuated before getting hit. That is not so. I know, because I was the navigator on that flight. We landed and went to the north side of the field to offload a BLU-82 that we had brought in. We offloaded the cargo, crossed to the other side of the runway, and were on the taxiway headed to picking up passengers when the field came under attack. The pilot was considering doing an emergency takeoff from the taxiway, but before a decision could be made if we had sufficient length to do so, we got hit in the right wing. Fuel began to pour out and ignited, setting the plane on fire. We evacuated as soon as we got hit and exited to the area between the taxiway and runway. After regrouping to ensure all were OK, we then decided to run over to the revetments near the refugee pickup spot on the south side of the taxiway. Upon hearing a GTC start up on a C-130 that had landed after us, we ran to that plan and exited with them, being the last US military airplane out of Vietnam.
  3. Clearly I need to be checking here more frequently than I have! Sam and Fred, I have no idea of your sources or basis of authority on 1980s operations. However, I was assigned to the 21st TAS from Feb. 1984 for a 3 year tour. I was initially the 21st TAS chief navigator, and then moved to become the ALCE commander until the end of my tour. Late in 1984 I joined what everyone in the 21st TAS knew as "E flight". It was also referred to as E Flight by 13th Air Force, who ran the missions. This was not a separate organizational element of the 21st TAS. It was instead a specifically designated set of personnel who were cleared to fly the missions. In other words, while I flew E flight missions, I also flew regular 21st TAS missions. It is very misleading to suggest that those persons flying those missions simply "twenty years later claim to have been part of them when it was an entirely different mission altogether." I claim only what I know I was told by the 21TAS and 13th Air Force--that this operation was referred to as E flight. If an organization's mission changes over time, that does not mean that it is not the same organization, only evolved. Most certainly, an outside observer is not in a position to second guess without some concrete data refuting what those who were participants were told by the Air Force command with operational responsibility.
  4. The title is somewhat misleading. The application requires that you certify you have an impairment "that severely limits one or more major life activities". Simply having a compensable disability certifed by a VA letter does not necessarily reach this level of impairment.
  5. Sam, the E Flight mission changed over the years. I would not characterize E flight in the 80s as a "troop carrier mission." We were not simply ferrying planes to the point where some other agency got in and took over the mission.
  6. Kurt, The mission of E flight varied over the years. It was different in the 21st TCS era and in the Vietnam era than when I was in it from 1984-1987. It certainly would have been different again if flying out of Rhein Mein as someone indicated at a later date. My recollection was that you needed to be instructor qualified, but I don't recall any other special quals other than being able to get a TS-SCI clearance. I can personally dispell the rumor that you were shot once you left the unit. The crews and maintenance were actually not a separate unit, but were members of other units who flew or supported particular missions (at least when I was a member). If anyone knows where to send a FOIA request concerning current classification status, please let me know at BusinessDr@aol.com. I have made several attempts to see if any aspect of this program has been declassified, and I cannot find a unit (e.g., 345th at Yokota or PACAF at Hickam) that even recognizes the program existed. I don't know about E flight but for Heavy Chain you could check with the Big Safari program office at Wright Patt. They were responsible for developing Heavy Chain. Bob
  7. Vince, It depends on the time frame in question whether or not E Flight has Super"E" models, as another post indicated we had them when I was in E Flight in the 80s. I do, however, agree with your comments on people assuming they know what E flight did. The mission of E Flight changed over the years, and it continued on in a different role after the Vietnam era. Doug
  8. businessdr

    SEA

    Jimmie, I was the navigator on 1297. I had always assumed we got a direct hit through the right wing. I don't recall having spoken to anyone on your crew about the incident afterwards, so I never heard the description you provided. After 35 years, it is good to hear the correct chain of events. As a slight edit to the description, we initially exited the aircraft to a ditch just to the left of the taxiway (towards the runway and away from the loading ramps). Later on I heard from intel that that area had been mined! After a brief stop there, we ran to the ramp, and I am guessing we ended up about 50 yards from your plane. We were already there when we heard your GTC start. Prior to that we hadn't realized there was a crew there. I still remember squatting low on the ramp before hearing your GTC and having one of the two security police who were with us (to provide "crowd control" for the passengers) asking if they should fire back. I found this both amusing and incredulous at the same time. I have no idea what they were thinking of shooting at. Doug
  9. businessdr

    SEA

    We were not to pick up a Blu 82, but to offload, which we did. We never went to base ops, nor was there a plan to do so. We were to offload ordanance, pick up pax, and leave, all engines running. When we got hit, we evacuated to the ramp area until hopping on the last plane that had been on the ramp when the mortars started. Doug
  10. businessdr

    SEA

    I just found this thread, so in case it is still of interest, there were no Blu 82s on board when our plane was hit. We had just offloaded the Blu 82s on the otherside of the runway, had taxied to the other side, and were on our way to pick up pax when we got hit. Doug Webster
  11. I was in E Flight from 84-87 at Clark. If others are around from that era, I\'d welcome a chance to reconnect. Doug Webster
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