K-J

20 years? Congrats on making it that long if you're a free thinker! I only made it to 17 years 2 months 8 days, but who's counting? CT-43 crash in Croatia ... yep, I worked that one, too. You and I could probably have an interesting debate over a few adult beverages. KJ

US Herk, Now, I get it! I actually used to open my classes (and still do) with that very illustration (using gorillas instead of monkeys). Perhaps one of the AIS generations after me is still using it! Yes, asking why is important. I often ask why, but hardly ever get an answer. I guarantee you my asking why at the SIB did not go over well. Part of the problem with the "knee jerk" reactions is politics always creeps in -- particularly when dealing with staff officers. Guys flying the line are usually pragmatic; those flying the desk are usually out-of-touch. With regard to the Trouble-T discussion ... Those investigating the mishap visited Dyess and found most did not know what a trouble-T was. After the SIB, I conducted an AF-wide investigation and found MOST Air Force pilots did not have a clue about it. Conventional wisdom would be to beat them all for not knowing something, but my conclusion was if this many good guys don't know this, then it must be because we are not teaching them. I agree with your assessment that the trouble-T procedure is just one of probably many safe ways to leave an airport. I would say an experienced pilot who understands the trouble-T could come up with another alternative if required. A pilot who (for whatever reason) doesn't even know what a trouble-T is probably should not be one to start coloring outside the lines. In other words, pick the right tool for the job ... but you need to understand all the tools in the toolbox. KJ

Ladies & Gents: I found this site while doing some research for a class I'm developing. I'm not a Herk guy, but sometimes I feel like one. I became involved with the C-130 community in many ways and grew to respect your culture and the job y'all do day-in and day-out. You are unsung heroes for the most part ... I was a tanker guy, so I understand the genre! I was a pilot member of the safety board for the Jackson Hole accident. At the time, I was assigned to the Flight Standards Agency, and I was in charge of all USAF flight directives. Later, my last assignment was at AIS, where I was perhaps the original "monkey" to use US Herk's characterization. (Or maybe it was JC) My last act in a green bag was to defend the C-130 crew who crashed in Kuwait against charges of negligent homicide. Many of you knew those on the crew at Jackson Hole. Over the years, I have spoke to quite a few of you. Even though I did not know them personally, through your eyes, your comments, and even your tears, I feel I have come to know them and what fine Americans they were. I think of them every day, and I pray the things we learned from them will make future crews safer. I may not get everything right, but I can assure you everything I have done and continue to do is to honor their memory. Many times, as US Herk was trying to say (I think), information which has been passed through several layers may suffer distortions from the original message. That doesn't mean those delivering the message are bad people; it just means they don't have first-hand knowledge. In the same way, some of the posts here are not accurate. Any of you who might have heard me teach back in the day knows two things about me: I'm sincere and I know what I'm talking about. So, I'm posting here with an invitation to those who may be interested ... if you want to hear the truth and get the facts ... feel free to get in touch with me directly anytime - 24/7/365. I have corresponded briefly with a gentleman in the Jackson Hole area. A memorial has been established and you can learn more about it at the following link: http://www.theastrocowboy.com/c130/c130.html I plan to visit this summer to pay my respects. The Jackson Hole accident is also covered in a book titled "Aircraft Accident Analysis: Final Reports." The authors are James Walters and Robert Sumwalt III. It's not a bad recap. I hope to hear from some of you. Until then, best wishes and fly safe! KJ [email protected]