Skip Davenport

I remember an AWADs crew being told to go home by a Army 2 star onboard ABCCC while enroute to Grenada. Seems they couldn't or wouldn't do a visual drop on Point Salinas airfield. The SATCOM discussion between the ABCCC and the AWADs bird was almost funny to listen to. I really felt sorry for that poor army ranger with the SATCOM radio on that AWADs bird. The conversation went something like this. ABCCC to AWADs bird -- Inform your pilots to drop the dozer 1/3 of the way down the runway on the left side and make sure the package doesn't land on the runway -- over. Replay -- the crew request lat/longs for the drop. Answer -- just tell the crew to visually fly down the runway and drop on the left side and visually drop the dozer so it doesn't land on the runway. Answer -- the pilot says he needs lat/longs or he can not drop. Replay -- son do you know who I am? Answer -- Yes Sir, Gen Stenier. Replay -- that's right son now you tell your pilots to visually fly down that runway and drop 1/3 of the way down and make sure they are far enough left so the dozer will not land on the runway -- copy? Answer -- Yes Sir.......... a few seconds later Sir my pilots say they need lat/longs to drop. Replay -- Son you tell you DAMN PILOTS to go home! Answer -- Yes Sir.

I do not recognize many of those terms that the woman is supposed to do.

What is these things you call "salad", "vegetables", and "cutlery".

Who eats steak with sauce?

Maybe I should take a pic of our "grill plaza" that we are building.

That would be great I am sure you will have B & B (Beer and Brawts)

There are 3 birds that have no rectum, therefore they are not etable.

I know some of you learned this in survival school.

Which birds are they? I think Vulture is one of them. I could be rong.

Senators, Congressional's and Lawyers

Thanks Bob it was Maj Mayer I found it in my flight book I kept.

Skip when you asked about jan 71, I thought you were at the 37th by then?

Bob

Nope got to the 37th in late April that year

There were three loadmasters on that aircraft, Ken Bancroft, Wesley Witherspoon, and Jim McClain. I think the one that you are referring to is Ken Bancroft, he was the big guy. They did one heck of a job, getting everyone in the cargo compartment out.

Ken makes two of Spoon and Banzai all great guys would fly with them Anytime Anyplace. Wait a minute I did already and would again Anytime Anyplace.

Still hard to believe -- in 25 years I flew only one.

Well said Dan -- couldn't agree more!

Major Curtis Daniel Miller, 16th SOS Ubon, was shot down on 29 Mar. 1972, in a Spectre Gunship, over Southern Laos.

His funeral, with full military honors plus a USAF fly-by, is scheduled at the Dallas-Fort Worth National Cemetery, Monday, 29 Mar. 2010, the anniversary of his death.

Below is an article about Maj. Miller from the Star-Telegram.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/03/12/v-print/2037057/azle-widow-can-finally-lay-her.html

"This was 044's mission when it was shot down...

From the People’s Army of Vietnam (PAVN) archives:

“From its first establishment, Group 559 had always moved most of its supplies down the road network on the West Side of Annamite Mountain Chain (the Ho Chi Minh Trail) during the dry season. To counter enemy attack aircraft, truck movement was primarily conducted at night. Because of the expansion of the battlefield (into Cambodia and Laos), our requirements for combined arms combat operations demanded the transportation of an ever-increasing quantity of supplies and technical equipment. At the same time, however, the enemy’s AC-130E aircraft established control over and successfully suppressed, to a certain extent, our night-time supply operations. The number of trucks destroyed by enemy aircraft during the 1970-71 dry season rose to 4,000, of which the AC-130E by itself destroyed 2,432 trucks (60.8% of the total number of trucks destroyed by the enemy). Our supply effort, conducted during a single season of the year and using “single supply route†could not respond adequately to our requirements. Our night supply operations encountered difficulties.â€

(PAVN HISTORY FOOTNOTE 1): Equipment to locate our supply trucks included light intensification devices, and sensors able to detect the electrical systems of our truck engines. The American imperialists called the AC-130E the flying “Saboteur†and the “Electronic Birdâ€. It was capable of firing on and destroying 68 vehicles in one hour (it took less than one minute to destroy each vehicle).

(PAVN HISTORY FOOTNOTE 2) “As compared with 1969, the number of supply trucks belonging to group 559 during the 1970-71 dry season increased from 3,000 to 6,500 trucks. The number of anti-aircraft artillery guns and mortars of all types was increased by over 200 tubes. The number of tractors of various types to build roads and to destroy mines and bombs increased by more than 1000. Communications radios were increased from 217 to more than 1000 sets. Troop strength was increased to 90,000 soldiers.â€

In Vietnam Courier “Supply Trucks Moving Down the Trail in daylight†No. 5, 1984, it states “ The AC-130s were taking an increasing toll against Trail traffic. They had become the most effective weapon against the trucks and had to be countered. The air defense units would engage them. But they were always escorted by strike aircraft armed to attack or destroy the guns and their crews. Other measures were needed and Colonel Le Xi of group 559 was sent to investigate.

Ibid, War in peace, Vol. number 5, 1984, “Road to Victory: The Ho Chi Mihn Trail†states; “He (Colonel Xi) met with various section leader, who told him of the damage the AC-130 were doing. When he met with numerous drivers and asked for their thoughts. One stated that he hated the lumbering gunships and their massive guns, which he called the “thug.†Another driver observed:

When we stayed quiet, it [the gunship] merely circled overhead. But as soon as we started the engine, in began firing. If we turned off the engine, it would fire a few more rounds and leave. But if we restarted the motor, it would come back at once. The dangerous thing is that this plane needs neither flares nor guidance by a recon planeâ€

Years ago on the old A model acft I had a oxegen hose fixed up so that I could vacum the flight deck on the last leg of a mission coming back in to Evreux. It did cause a lot of ear popping when the end got pluged.

how many nuts bolts etc were stuck in the tail?

Got to fly a shuttle, to TSN with Sam in 72, The AC's name was Pat Maher, if I remember.

correctly. One evening after returning to TSN, we had some folks from Langley TDY to

CCK, Sam and I met another Scot. a LM named David Rae. When David and Sam got to

speaking Gaelic. I figured it was time to leave. I got a spot on my shoulder for carrying him

around, That is one character.

Rg Glenn Secrest

yep your memory is correct we (37TAS) from Langley were there TDY and a fun time was had by all until the Wing King cnx'd my mission to Hanoi to take the peace delegation in and that was after I was inbreafed on the mission. A$$ hole!! I made such a stink he was said to have said that SOB will not get a mission north. I didn't but mannaged to get my crew on one :)

Next time you see a "bird" on a telephone line, better look closely!

http://video.designworldonline.com:80/video/vid=0f7d1e1689b1472a83149c3c5d822235

Is Airplane a remake of Zero Hour? You decide

I know the Peterson 130s help with fire-fighting and the Pope birds fly for the 82nd Airborne frequently. What other squadrons have niche-type missions stateside?

Thank you all for the help! I'm trying to gather as much as I can from my instructors and anybody else who will volunteer their opinion. By far, the most common advice for us 2LTs is 'Shut up, and listen to those with more experience.' Keep it coming!

When I was an LT I was lucky to be assigned to an all Instructor crew. I would get asked a "Question of the Day" from each crew position. My job was to have an answer the next day -- I was not allowed to ask another crew memeber. But the Mx folks were there and the biggest help. But, not all questions involved something Mx would know about -- my brain was hurting many an evening trying to figure out an answer. Lot of book work. :)

Reminds me of when the C-17 Nancies clamed they invented a new drop technique for MREs that was actually developed by some guys in the 7th SOS years earlier. Mike Duffie was one of the guys.

Back me up on the year Skip, if I remember right it was early 90s to drop for the Kurds?

yep Talon 2 crews and I believe Duffie was one of the loads -- I will ck and let ya know.

Easter Bunny drops -- remember them well :)

Read The Book. Nice one guys. You Have The Balls To try. Hope i can buy you guys a cold one. Trev.

Trev if you are talking about the book on Operation Eagle Claw (Desert One) the name is "The Guts to Try" by Col Kyle. "The Guts to Try" -- That was written on a napkin placed on a case of beer and given to the guys when they landed form the mission by the Marines.

Skip, that's IED Location Engineer. Remember, this is the kindler, gentler, more politically correct Air Force.

Tiny maybe so but it's not me in my time or now -- I remember when I went back thru C-130 recall in 77 "they" were going to pair me with a new female LT then when I got to class "they" decided against it -- I really don't know why :)

IIRC they fall under -135 of the FAR/AIM. They also have their own acronym/saying: OOTSK! or Order Of The Sleepless Knights.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=OOTSK

Sorry all the one's I know were Part 91

A lot of civilian pilots get there carriers started hauling freight. These are usually late at night with marginal equipment and little to no work rules -- except get it DONE if you don't want the job someone else will do it!! These pilots are usually so green and inexperienced they knuckle under. Just to fly they are forced to cut corners a lot of "gray" stuff, fly in doggie doo doo weather with no real crew rest. It is amazing that planes are not crashing all over the place.

that's called using the existing conditions (dirt) to put out the fire!

Skip

7878 was Sep 66 AC was Capt Shinn

0545 was Mar 69 AC was Maj Long an IP

1800 was Dec 69 AC was Capt Vogt an IP

0536 was Oct 70 AC was Maj Mayer an IP

1805 was Jun 72 AC was Capt Olson an IP

Bob

Thanks Bob it was Maj Mayer I found it in my flight book I kept.

Skip when you asked about jan 71, I thought you were at the 37th by then?

Bob

There were three I remember, Tom Dempsey, Ron Dorsey-he may have been in the 36th then, and the head of stan eval, his name escapes me but i'll remember it.

Bob

My bet is Ron :)

64-0536 was a CCK local that was diverted to Taipei to pick up pax.

Major Ronald Stelter was a Nav.

The AC was an IP Major Mayer, CP lt Thomas, the FE Sgt Ehle and LM A1C Wilson Crew chief A1C Bosnick

They took off with a clearance to 3000 climb to six after the first fix. They never climbed passed three, they were called and did not acknowledge climbing to 6. Hit the mountain at 3000 feet. Basically crew error, did not follow their clearance, in their defence the nav aids in Taipei were notoriously crappy.

After that every crew had to get a Taipei check with an IP before they went alone.

I gave lots of Taipei checks and one of the only three guys I ever flunked, flunked the Taipei check. He had already busted twice with two other IP's-No situational awareness, matter of fact no awareness at all.

Bob

The others:

63-7878 reported over a beacon but was 13 1/2 miles right of the beacon and hit a mountain

64-0545 crashed short of the runway trying to land below minimums.

62-1800 crew said "runaway prop" Board said crack in prop dome assembly

I Forgot 62-1805 that ended up in the ater off Makung, there was a lot of controversy over the cause of that one. prop I think, Muff may know.

Bob

7878 wasn't that the bird in Jan 71? If so I was the normal CP for that crew. However, the AC had just upgraded to IP and was assigned a AC upgrade on that flight. He told me I wouldn't get in the seat and could stay home. As my wife had just arrived for a 30 day visite I elected not to fly that night.

Damn -- all that jump chock training I did gone to waste!!!!