SEFEGeorge

Only thing I can ever remember about incidents in the back was at Hickam in a B model. They were testing a new style brake for the recovery winch. They caught the chute and it went in trail as advertised but instead of the brake gradually applying to stop the cable pay out it went full on. This over stressed the cable and it snapped. Took out part of the hog trough, took out 2 throttle cables, hit a back ender in the head (luckily we wore helmets for recoveries since we stated the recovery at 20K). If I remember correctly, #3 & #4 engines went to NTS. Heavy bird, 14 crewmembers, max fuel. Started loosing altitude. FE (Randy Hall if I remember correctly) hit the dump pumps, AC told them to jettison the recovery poles and close up. IFE call to Hickam. Everyone into their chutes, flight deck chutes were our back cushions. Just before bailout bell, leveled off around 2K and limped into Hickam.

I imagine that 14 zoom bags went into the garbage after that. Not enough washing could get those puppies clean.

That's what I remember from 35 years ago.

It may sound "wrong" and ONLY after considering all other factors (terrain, climb capabilities, etc.) this is not "bad" advice.

The reason I say that is if you have the power necessary to climb (say straight ahead out over the water) a reduced torque value will result in your VMCA KIAS to go down.

So based on the statement made setting the reduced TIT torque “AFTER” VMCA is reached will help with directional control.

VMCA is based on Max power on the operational engines. This will be the MOST asymmetrical torque condition and VMCA is the lowest IAS that will allow for directional control under the conditions that define it.

Think you're confusing the issue. Vmca, max power on operating engines, 5 degree bank away from dead engine, full rudder deflection/180 lbs of force (if memory serves). Your way, sure Vmca will go down, but may not give you a climb speed needed. Out over the water straight and level is one thing, flying around land locked states, with hills, mountains, trees, buildings is another. Reducing power will help with directional control, but is will also let the airplane bleed off energy. Energy is maneuverability.

We always taught the students that once everything gets settled after shutdown, pull back throttle on symmetrical engine to help with directional control but the 2 symmetrical operating engines are up, typically past where the reduced power torque would be. After being in the 16th for 4 years I saw many a student pilots in 3 engine situations - after liftoff, 3 engine go-arounds, etc. And had a fair share of actual 3 engine operations.

Had a check ride with Bitchin Butch Orend, at the start of the check he hands me 10 pennies and says every time you f*ck up you have to pay for it, if you go broke you fail. Boy I had a death grip on those pennies.

As for a philosophy on administering checkrides, base the required knowledge level on who the evaluee is (ie basic, instructor, etc.) and realize that there is a ladder to knowledge levels and some folks are always going to be on the bottom of that latter knowledge wise and as long as they can fumble their way through the books for most items its going to be a Q1 whereas an instructor had better know most things in the book without direct reference to the books.

My longest ground eval (about 16-20 hours of it), I thought he was just busting my chops for the hell of it but a month later I was headed to instructor school!!

George, do you remember Ron Hennion? I think he was in that course evaluation with you.

Dan, about now the only name I can remember is mine. Lynn Hebdon, ? Couch, and a guy from LRF that drove his S-10 p/u with a huge camper on it (almost got blown over by hi winds there).

Got a class pic around here somewhere, if I can only find it.

Only other names I remember from there are the 2 women I dated there, Gail and Barbara (their last names not used in case it might upset current spouses). Ah, being single and TDY for 8 weeks...

I had to go through Altus in '80. There was an FE insrtuctor from LRF getting some info for starting the training at LRF but I don't remember his name. Pat Nash was in my class. Pat was the FE on the Nashville A model that crashed at Ft. Campbell on landing.

The date on my completion certificate is 14 Dec 79.

I'll take the connie, since they wouldn't give me the Credible sport plane it would make up for that

Good luck with those R3350 compound engines. The PRT was a bitch to work on. And pulling chocks - don't wear any good fatigues. If you aren't covered with oil spray, the oil tank is probably empty.

I was part of the cadre of C-130 IFEs who were chosen to validate the Performance School for C-130 guys back in '79. take 34 IFEs from AF wide and put them together at Altus. Talk about an 8 week party. That was a preliminary step to making all FEs the same, C shredout. Even though the next class of basic FEs were going to use a calculator in the school, we had to use the slide rule. There were some pretty frustrated older IFEs to be sure. Luckily there was sufficient "lubricating fluid" after class. even with being treated like red-headed step-children we all made it through the course and got our C shredout.

After that, the 7 of us from LRF were tasked with taking the 8 week course and condense it to 2 weeks and then to be taught to C-130 FEs. Took us about a year to complete it and get it approved. Then we taught the classes, each taking a different segment. Luckily I never had a swept-wing retread as a student or evaluatee. Well, guess I did. But he was a 141 guy that wanted Hercs and to get back to Alaska since he was up here before during the pipeline era, maintenance I think it was.

I remember when reduced power T/Os were started. Seems like it was 1975 or so when I was in the 32nd. Being a new Herc FE I wasn't sure how I felt about it. In recips, C-131, C-118, T-29, T/O power and go. So in the Herc, guess I just felt uneasy.

During a Commander's Call we had an IP, Capt. Roger Phelan, give a safety briefing. He said that during engine out operation after takeoff, and Vmca, to set the torque to correspond to the TOLD data. This sounded really wrong to me, but being the experienced 100 hr FE that I was, I kept quiet since no one else was speaking up.

Well, I finally had my medical evaluation appointment today at the VA Pension and Compensation office. Maybe I should be concerned since it was at the office in the Northway Mall and not the VA Clinic. :confused:

Only taken about a year to get that far. Now to get some x-rays, etc., before the PA can make a determination. I'm hoping for a decent percentage finding, 50% or more. That way it'll help us out with our property taxes, DMV fees, etc. If not that high then at least a determination for the recognition of the service connected problems.

It's an '07, so there is a difference in the back. Maryland makes a fortune of their special plates, every organization anymore has one, my truck has IAFF tags, then you see what they call the CR tag, it has various campaign and award medals on it like the VSM, bronze star, purple heart, etc............PLUS thye have about five or six at least for farming, Cheasepeake Bay, Nurses, that sort of thing...................I'm surprised alaska does have one specifically for each war.....

Giz

Giz, here's a pic of our '09 Liberty. I checked the sweep of the rear wiper arm and the space that's not hit by the sweep is pretty small, maybe 1.5" tall and 4" or so wide. Of course I could put any size sticker on it if I didn't mind the wiper blade rubbing across it. But I figured that this would wear out the blade and the sticker. So I'm pretty much looking around for a 3 RVN ribbons one that can be narrowed to about 1.5" for the top of the window.

Looks like there's no place for the big "props" one either. So I'll have to get one of the small oval ones to put on the window. I guess that bigger isn't always better!

Jim, haven't seen it yet. Probably wait to get the DVD. Heard it was only a so-so movie but i'll give it a shot.

I would think that the F-86 and F-4 would be kept. These 2 sure played a big part in the U.S.'s last 2 big conflicts, Korea and RVN.

Sorry to say that I've actually worked on a number of those birds at one time or another:

B-52D Stratofortress (Depot at Kelly AFB 72-73)

EC-121K Constellation (C-121C WPAFB 69-70)

F-100F Super Sabre (WPAFB 69-70)

F-101B Voodoo (WPAFB 69-70)

T-28A Trojan (tech school 69)

T-38A Talon (FTD school and Laughlin AFB 72)

I've posted this before, but.... Once got a check ride from Bill Knox at Hickam. I went there from the 16th, so I was the use to asking all the questions. Anyway, it was question after question when ever the chance arose - from the ice impact panels on the side of the plane, 1st aid kits, windows, pressures, limits, warning lights, and other obscure info. Finally about half way through the ride I asked Bill that if I could ask him a question that he couldn't answer then the check ride would be over and his questioning stop. He agreed. hahahaha. I asked him how many times a minute the tail lights on a B model flash. He said 85. Nope. That's on E's. On B's it alternates 40 for the white and 40 for the amber. Tada! Qual 1.

I always based my evals on the FE and his experience. A 500 hr FE was different than a 1,500 hr FE. Same basic check ride but additional questions were based on his experience level. Sure he could say "it's in the book," etc., but if you had the hours you ought to have better knowledge than just "in the book" answers. Otherwise additional system and manual questions would be forthcoming.

Once had a FE at the Dorf who said he was a 2,500 hr FE. Since I knew him from LRF where he flew a lot as a scanner in the 16th before becoming a FE. So I asked him that on his next eval should I "grade" him as a 2,500 hr FE or a 500 hr FE? He thought better about his statement.

Seems to me that on every model revision, A/124k to B/135k (aux tanks) to E/155k (ext tanks), the GW went about the amount the fuel load was increased. Not sure if that was how intended or just a coincidence.

My initial instructor upgrade ride at LRF by CMSGT Larsen if I remember correctly. After the flight during the question/deer-in-the-headlight session he asked me what was the hardest system for the Phase I students (I was assigned to the 16th TATS). Not really thinking first I answered the prop system. He then asked me to explain the prop system to him. :eek:

One I was briefed on was a ride given at LRF. No notice, O-dark 30, FE and evaluator showed up at aircraft, no crew chief and no power on bird. FE cranked up the power cart and applied power to bird without checking forms first. Q-3 off the git-go for safety.

I always made sure I did a complete briefing - just follow checklists, etc. Never asked questions during "busy" times. Gave the examinee breathing space and "rest" periods.

Giz, there are a number of plates available. Without posting a pic of each here's just a list and can be seen at

http://doa.alaska.gov/dmv/plates/index.htm

POW, Purple Heart, some unit plates, veterans of military operations in support of the United States in the Kingdom of Laos between February 28, 1961, and May 15, 1975 (?), etc., but not each war/operation/etc.

trying this again

Looks good giz. What year is your Liberty? '08? Ours is an '09. Bigger than previous years and head-on front end view reminds me of an Abrams tank, hence the "aerodynamics" sticker I have. I'll have to take a straight-on picture of mine when I get out to the garage.

Sucks we don't have RVN Vet license plates. We have vet plates, etc., but no handicap vet plates unless your 50% service connected so I still have the standard Alaska HDCP plates.

I don't have to worry about self-castration, the ex handled that pretty well.

Bob, if I remember correctly, when I was there we only had 10 B models. Plus, 5832 was a loaner whenever we had a P model in PDM, etc. It never was painted as a Falling Star bird. I think we got it from McClellan. From what I was told when they got it back the first thing they checked was a FE seat to make sure it hadn't been swapped out.

On missions, 5 recovery bird were sent out for the recovery and 1 P for the helo refuels. Second P was sent out later, can't remember the exact time delay though. Third P was kept as a ready to go spare if needed.

64-0543 crashed at LRF 13 may 82

Bob

Thanks Bob. It crashed while I was on my way to EDF from LRF. I heard about it while at Fairchild where I was finally being sent to basic survival school, after 7 years on the Herc. Was sorry to hear about it.

When Casey sent me my latest print a few months ago, he included some of his "Real Planes Have Props" stickers. Here's how I utilized one of them.

Don R.

Nice looking truck Don. I had a '79 when I came to AK. Passed everything on the highway except the gas stations - 350 cu.in., 4 barrel, 10 MPG. Luckily I had dual tanks on the drive from ARK-OH-WA otherwise we would have been stopping every few hours for gas.

With the back wiper on our Liberty not a lot of room for stickers even though I do have a few in the corners. Been trying to find a RVN sticker that thinner, about 1.5" to go across the top of the rear window.

If I remember correctly, the -1-1 listed an "expected" static torque based on temp, pressure altitude, etc., for a 95% engine. But I've never heard of an aborted takeoff for an engine with less than the expected. I'd glance at the torque but was concentrating more on RPM, TIT and FF.

oh sorry the E model section these were 73 models...73-7779 and 73-7829. I think 7818 and 7829 was a 69 model, it has been since mid 80's since i seen the E's but worked on the H's from '87 til '92 in Alaska

From what I remember some of the E's at the Dorf were, 63-7779, 7804, 7818, 7829, 7831, 7832, 7857, 7872, but missing 2 more cause of CRS, plus 64-0500 when I first got there but was transferred out sometime in 82-83 time frame.

Any 73 models were Super-E's but were designated H's. They were at LRF when I first got there in 75. Tail numbers 74-1580 to 159x. If they were at the Dorf they came in after I left in Feb 86.

Casey, I was just wondering. I did a search in the database for 6594th birds but no results. Also tried to do a search for the crash at at LRAFB in '82. So I'm not sure how in depth the aircraft info is or how specific the searches can be.

Picked up a few pigs in my day, but none of them agreed to be restrained! :rolleyes:

Just read this on Military.com

WASHINGTON -- Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has ordered a review of the new Distinguished Warfare Medal following complaints from veterans groups and lawmakers about its ranking above the Bronze Star and Purple Heart, a senior defense official said Tuesday.

The review, to be led by Joint Chiefs Chairman Gen. Martin Dempsey, will look at whether the order of precedence for the new medal should be changed, but will not consider eliminating it. A report is due back to Hagel in early April.

The new medal, announced last month, is designed to honor "extraordinary actions" of drone pilots and other off-site troops performing noteworthy deeds on far-away battlefields.

The honor is still months away from being awarded for the first time, and no known candidates have been nominated for the recognition. But veterans groups and lawmakers have savaged the new award almost from its introduction, dubbing it the "Nintendo Medal" and "Purple Buttocks."

Representatives from the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the American Legion and the Military Order of the Purple Heart have petitioned Pentagon leaders and the White House to reconsider the medal's ranking, saying it should not be place above honors earned on the battlefield.

Members of the House and Senate have also requested a review of the ranking, and introduced legislation to force the Pentagon to lower its placement.

The defense official said those criticisms prompted Hagel to call for the review.

Last week, Hagel seemed intent on upholding the status of the Distinguished Warfare Medal, unveiled by his predecessor, Leon Panetta.

In letters sent out Thursday responding to concerns from Sen. Pat Toomey, R-Pa., and other lawmakers and veterans groups, Hagel wrote that he had discussed the medal with the service chiefs and accepted their opinion that the award is at the appropriate level.

"Since Sept. 11, 2001, technological advancements have, in some cases dramatically changed how we conduct and support combat and other military operations," Hagel wrote. "Accordingly the [Distinguished Warfare Medal] award criteria intentionally does not include a geographic limitation on the award, as it is intended for use as a means to recognize all servicemembers who meet the criteria, regardless of the domain used or the member's physical location."

The award is meant to reward a single extraordinary act that affects combat, Hagel wrote.

"It recognizes a specific type of contribution that is vital to the defense of our nation. It in no way degrades or minimizes our nation's other important awards or the tremendous sacrifices of our men and women who earn these prestigious recognitions," he wrote.

Other noncombat medals already rank higher than the Bronze Star, which usually recognizes valor, he pointed out. The Medal of Honor, Service Crosses and Silver Star, which are awarded solely for heroism in combat, remain higher in prestige than the new warfare medal, Hagel noted.

But now the defense review will re-examine those issues. Dempsey is expected to consult with the service chiefs about the new honor before completing his final report.

In a statement, Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif. -- a vocal critic of the award and one of only a handful of Afghanistan veterans in Congress -- praised the decision to undertake a review.

"The (Distinguished Warfare Medal) is widely viewed as an award that undermines all other valor awards and the reverence for servicemembers who face the dangers of direct combat.," he said. "It's a fact that those who are off the battlefield do not experience the same risks.

"Pretending they do devalues the courageous and selfless actions of others, who, during combat, do the unthinkable or show a willingness to sacrifice their own lives. "