Guest Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Several years ago, I recall there was an Air Force TCTO that disabled the (hot) bleed air nose radome anti-icing on most of the USAF C-130s. Supposedly, the hot air system was causing delamination and/or deterioration of the fiberglass layers in the radomes, driving the radome reliability rate down to an unacceptable level. It seems the new radome that comes on the J-model does not have an anti-icing capability either. Any feedback from flight crews on icing conditions (?), or was it never really a problem to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**130 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 I don\'t think that icing on the radome is that big of a issue, as far as aerodynamics go. From what I\'ve seen it will only build up on the tip of the radome, in about a 6-8 inch circle, even in the worst of icing. Maybe they were worried about the radar but our 241 low power radar seems to work fine even with ice on the radome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 We\'ve still got it on the T2. Don\'t want the TF radar to think it sees something that isn\'t there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaherk Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Ours have been removed for years, flying Europe,Antarctic and Middle East without any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**130 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 US Herk wrote: We\'ve still got it on the T2. Don\'t want the TF radar to think it sees something that isn\'t there... No kiddin flying at the alt you guys fly at! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarrett Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 US Herk wrote: ....Don\'t want the TF radar to think it sees something that isn\'t there... Or vice versa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Or vice versa Usually not a problem with our \"lets just put enough power through the radar to light up a city\" energy levels! The brute force technique worked well for Emerson - who had never built a radar, much less a TF radar, before (or since). In fact, I\'m surprised our energy doesn\'t just melt the ice off itself! :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Ice and water don\'t pose much of a problem for X-band frequencies, 10GHz range. The reason the glycol tanks were needed for the AWADS and Talon 1 was the Ka-band PGM, 34GHz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMPTestFE Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 You know, AFSOC funded (and got) a 241 modified to TF. When the money stopped, it looked pretty damn good. We were ready to take it down to 250 at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 Yes. But can you do it in icing conditions? That is the question. When (if) the program is continued, this kind of testing will need to be accomplished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted October 1, 2008 Share Posted October 1, 2008 There are/were two programs running - the AMP was one and the other is/was a funded program with a wider application than just T2. The non-AMP one had some unique capabilities the 241 could not have due to design. I haven\'t received any updates on this one in quite some time (not having SIPR & STU here at the schoolhouse sucks sometimes), but I\'m sure it would require similar icing tests at some point, although I know some applications of it wouldn\'t have an anti-icing capability due to application... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 I just don\'t see how you can do TF with an antenna that only sweeps side to side, and not that fast either, unless they changed some hardware along with the software on the 241. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 6, 2008 Share Posted October 6, 2008 Yep, some hardware changes, but not drastic. Mostly software--and TF, as always is vertical scan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 7, 2008 Share Posted October 7, 2008 I would call that a drastic hardware change, with the addition of a vertical antenna drive section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2008 Share Posted October 8, 2008 Not as drastic as you might think. Only hardened the gears and replaced the motor/tachometer for the existing elevation drive, plus tuning the elevation drive servo amplifier. The scan rate is controlled--so far, so good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 tiny clark wrote: I just don\'t see how you can do TF with an antenna that only sweeps side to side, and not that fast either, unless they changed some hardware along with the software on the 241. The real trick is multi-tasking - getting both TF/TA sweeps & generating a ground map as well without having the data \"age\" significantly - if understand it correctly, the 241 cannot do that &, in fact, the 241 TF solution is leaning heavily on DTED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyclark Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I never went on a night mission in Greece with the APQ122-V8, and I sure wouldn\'t with the 241. As usual, my hat\'s off to the Talon Drivers. We didn\'t have NVG\'s back then either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT II Raven Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Bingo on relying on DTED - also, do not forget weather, while your are TF/TA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 CT II Raven wrote: - also, do not forget weather, while your are TF/TA. Yeah - that\'s WHY I\'m TF/TA! But of course, you\'re right - need to pull up WX when the TF seems to think the rain is thick enough to be granite to figure out which way to go!:ohmy: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2008 Share Posted October 14, 2008 Since the -241 TF is not on contract for installation on any airplanes, speculating on what the overall capabilities/limitations are way too early. All the TF testing to date has been focused on TF software risk reduction. However, the development testing has demonstrated that the -241 TF can interleave with two other modes, such as TA and Weather.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 TalonOneTF wrote: However, the development testing has demonstrated that the -241 TF can interleave with two other modes, such as TA and Weather.... At what refresh rate? IE - how old is my data? A second or two can kill you. The clunky APQ-170 has two radars running concurrently and until we go phased array, I don\'t see how a spinning/tipping antenna can do things quickly enough without relying heavily on DTED. Not that I\'m knocking DTED, rather, that you have to sacrifice something if you try to do multiple scans with the same antenna. The DTED is a nice \"filler\" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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