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Guam Crash in the Seventies

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The report lists A1C Thomas E Armstrong as the crew chief.

Dec 09 1972 64-0505 Guam Capt James M Sanborn AC

Dec 09 1972 64-0505 Guam 1 LT Jon R Brumbach CP

Dec 09 1972 64-0505 Guam 1 LT John D Murphy Jr CP

Dec 09 1972 64-0505 Guam TSGT William J Candelario FE

The Nav and LM wisely decided not to take part.

There were 2 Army officers on board Capt John Reilly and David Soltesz.

The Flight Attendant was Carol Hawkins

The 2 army officers and A1C Armstrong survived the crash and were hospitalized. I don't know if they survived, the report is old and hard to read.

I think Armstrong survived.

Bob

Edited by bobdaley

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Bob, That is correct. Tom Armstrong and I were in tech school at Sheppard AFB together and went To CCK together in Aug of 1971. He was injured pretty seriously in the crash and was medevac'd to Japan for awhile, and then to a hospital in Texas for quite some time. He was sitting just aft of bulkhead 245 when one of the blades off #3 prop came through the fuselage narrowly

missing him. He made his way back to the aft escape hatch and jumped to the ground. He was awarded the Purple Heart. I'm glad to say that Tom is doing okay I spoke with him a few months ago, if I remember correctly, he's getting ready to retire, and is into drag racing up in Ohio.

Tom

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C-130 Aircrew Losses 04/29/02 .....saved section of the report.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4240[/ATTACH]

I have no comments on what they may or may not have done. None of the stories seems very strange when we flew in an insane place almost every day.

I have the full 04/29/02 C-130 Aircrew Losses Report in HTML format.

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Just arrived as a new member and wish to comment on this thread. These were squadron mates of mine in the 776th TAS CCK. The mission was a multi-destination week long trip. The copilots were receiving upgrade training for aircraft commander. I as a senior copilot had been scheduled for this mission but due to manpower issues I was sent back "in country" to NKP, Thai. replaced by Lt Murphy.

The flight was not on their itinerary but the IP was authorized to fly for upgrade training requirements. This later became a big issue that it was flown without permission. Some crew decided not to fly as they were only going to do traffic pattern work.

My recollection is that a simulated engine-out ( power reduced ) approach was flown with a touch and go planned. All throttles were advanced for the T&G but one engine possibly lost power and the aircraft veered off runway and the wing tip made ground contact spinning the plane further out of control.

The result was as previously discussed. The unauthorized passengers, not allowed on training flights, were all met the previous evening at dinner. The flight attendant was on layover with Pan Am, her father a US congressman. This investigation went right to the top and many "heads rolled" along with massive operational procedural changes. You could no longer takeoff from anywhere until you called HOME and got permission.

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The Pan Am stewardess was my sister. She was 22. What a crappy time in history. Seems like I was told

There were two stewardesses aboard. Thanks for all the recollections. Anything helps closure since I still miss her.

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During this period of time there was a joint service Civic Action operation in the Trust Territories of the Pacific (TTPI) with the Navy in the lead. There were 14 man engineer detachments in the Marshall Islands, Mariana Islands, Yap, Palau, Truk and Ponape. Four were Navy Seabee’s, one was Air Force Red Horse, and one Army from the 1st Special Forces Group on Okinawa.

The headquarters for this operation was out of the Seabee base of Camp Covington, Guam. This small HQ unit had one Air Force material handling specialist and two Army Officers assigned. One Army Officer was a projects officer the other the re-supply coordinator. CPT Reilly and CPT Soltesz were filling these positions. They were TDY from the 539th Engineer Detachment, 1st Special Forces Group, Okinawa.

For 10-14 days every 6 weeks, a C-130 was assigned from either the PI or Taiwan to haul beer, soda, food, building supplies and equipment to these remote teams as well as a Coast Guard LORAN station in Angaur, Palau. The trip to the Marshall Islands was always an RON, the others out and back. Ponape could go either way. This was a lot of flying so the Air Force usually sent two complete flight crews. In December of 1972 64-0505 had this mission.

I only have first hand knowledge of the Army officers. CPTs Reilly and Soltesz both survived the crash. CPT Soltesz was burned over 50% of his body and spent about a year in the hospital on Okinawa. I do not know if he ever returned to duty. CPT Reilly survived almost unscathed. I believe that he may have broken a finger or toe. He stated that he saw a hole open up just behind the flight deck and jumped out. CPT Reilly continued on Active Duty after the crash.

The above is true to the best of my recollection the following is rumor and hearsay which may or may not agree with the official report.

Allegedly one of the Pilots meet a PanAm stewardess the day before the crash and invited her to participate in some pattern work. The flight crew was practicing some one engine out touch and gos when they lost the engine on the same side that they shut down or feathered. The engine was lost at a point of no return where there was not enough runway to stop and not enough power to take off. It is my understanding that the pilot unsuccessfully tried to do a 180 degree power slide to save the plane. There were rumors that the stewardess was sitting at the controls.

I have discussed this crash with both Reilly and Soltesz. They both mentioned that the stewardess was on board and on the flight deck but unfortunately I cannot remember what they said about the stewardess at the controls.

CPT Reilly is a man of great ethics and honor. I would believe whatever he stated in the official report. Under the circumstances he had no reason to be untruthful.

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Bob, 

I am a new member here because, as I was doing some research about my father's crash in Guam I found this forum. Seems that you have a very large group of very qualified sources.

My father was on 62-1841 that crashed on 4/20/74. I have never really found out much about the crash but I saw where you said there was pictures in the gallery. Anything or anywhere you can direct me for more information would be great.

I do enjoy reading all the stories and hearing a lot of wonderful men and women talk about the birds they flew.

Thank you,

Rick Maas

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13 hours ago, Texas Rick said:

Bob, 

I am a new member here because, as I was doing some research about my father's crash in Guam I found this forum. Seems that you have a very large group of very qualified sources.

My father was on 62-1841 that crashed on 4/20/74. I have never really found out much about the crash but I saw where you said there was pictures in the gallery. Anything or anywhere you can direct me for more information would be great.

I do enjoy reading all the stories and hearing a lot of wonderful men and women talk about the birds they flew.

Thank you,

Rick Maas

 

Listed as a crash on take off. Crew loss;

Apr 20 1974 62-1841 AndersonAFB Guam

Major Francis E King

Major Robert M Monarch

1 LT Nelson T Hicks

TSGT Joe L Smith

SSGT Larry F Maas

SGT Amos W Newsom

That is all I have on it. Probably some more info on the Internet.

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The pictures are in the gallery under 3804 which was its Lockheed construction number.

The aircraft was being ferried Clark AB in the PI to Robins AFB GA for maintenance. Next stop Midway island.

Someone told me about the crash. I remember, I think, that he had gone to the accident scene and took the pictures.

They made a normal takeoff, started to climb out and sunk back down and hit the runway, after hitting the runway the aircraft exploded and ran off the end of the runway and the wreckage ended up on the side of the cliff where the pictures were taken.

There is more to the story because the aircraft seemed to be functioning normally, but I can't remember the cause.

Bob

Where are you in Texas, I'm in Dallas.

BTW if you want to try you might be able to get a copy of the accident report from the USAF by filing a FOIA request.

 

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1 hour ago, bobdaley said:

The pictures are in the gallery under 3804 which was its Lockheed construction number.

@Texas Rick

Here's a direct link to the images.  3804

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Thank each of you for responding. I am trying to get all the information I can for my kids and grandchildren. I was 14 when this all          happened and my mom and dad were divorced. I didn't get to see my dad near enough because he was stationed out of Texas. I have always heard that the plane took off, bounced on the runway and crashed and burned in the side of a cliff. Thank you for the information and I will do a request from Randolph AFB for more info.

 

Rick Maas

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Bob, I am in the San Antonio area. I live close to Randolph AFB and every year we host trainee's from Lackland AFB for the Operation Home Cooking. It's a rewarding experience for our family. Thank You for your service to all the men and women that serve and have served our fine country.

Rick

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On 2/16/2016 at 9:32 PM, Graywolf88 said:

Listed as a crash on take off. Crew loss;

Apr 20 1974 62-1841 AndersonAFB Guam

Major Francis E King

Major Robert M Monarch

1 LT Nelson T Hicks

TSGT Joe L Smith

SSGT Larry F Maas

SGT Amos W Newsom

That is all I have on it. Probably some more info on the Internet.

To Texas Rick: I am Darrell Fransen, I was the Crew Chief of record on 1841 when it went down, my name was in the 781's!. Due to an impending PCS out of Clark AB; I was not able to accompany "my bird" back for PDM. It was on a ferry flight to Warner Robins. Al (Amos) Newsom took my place on that ill fated flight; his wife had recently given birth (to a girl as I recall) and he was over-joyed at the prospect of seeing his wife and new child. I still get weepy when thinking about this. I did not know any of the flight crew. I remember that I was staying off-base and someone got word to me that I was needed immediately at the squadron. I had no idea what new I would get, but when they told me, I sat down and cried. I used to have a copy of the preliminary accident report, but many years of moving have taken their toll on many things that I tried to keep. The night vision problem and impacting the runway after take off are fact. I pray that this ads a little humanity to the facts.

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I was assigned to the 54 WRS at the time of the accident. The runway was 6R I believe. It was night. The Andersen runways at the time had a pronounced concave contour with the approach end and departure end elevations being higher than the midpoint of the runway length. In other words: downhill the first part of takeoff ground run, and uphill the later part; you would have to climb a bit just to clear the end of the runway. As I remember it, the C-130 touched down off the right side of the runway and before the end of the runway, and the debris field extended to the cliff and over the side down towards the reef at water's edge. I don't remember the weather at the time, but VMC or IMC same difference, because there was zero visual cues from the surface once you lost sight of the airfield and runway lights. Night takeoffs like that can cause visual and sensory illusions, and early or rapid flap retraction could add the risk of spatial disorientation. Flaps come up; nose pitches up; but climb doesn't increase...relax a little back pressure...could happen very easily. A copy of the publicly releasable portion of the accident report should be obtainable. No voice or data recorders in those days, so investigation and reporting relied in a large measure on "educated guesses".

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As I recall there was a sign in Base Ops that said in part " when crossing the departure end of the runway you MUST be in a positive climb attitude". Even in day VMC there was a visual illusion of being excessively nose high as everything turned blue, sky and water seemed to merge at times. Perfect setup for spatial d.

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On July 12, 2009 at 2:25 PM, airnav said:

Does anyone know of the particulars involving the crash of a 130 on Guam around '74 or '76? I once heard some bizzare stories that the pilot's were flying a local around the island with some civilian flight attendents aboard, and that the FE and Nav refused to be onboard the aircraft. Any truth to this?

 

Kurt

I was stationed in Guam 82-83 with the 605th MASS (54th WRS) and I remember that if you stood at the end of the runway (cliff) you could still see the tail sticking up out of the jungle below.  If this is the crash you are referring to.

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On 7/19/2009 at 2:52 PM, Bullwinkle said:

Since I was there at good old CCK at that time I'll have to back up Bob as to Andy being PISSED.

I was in mid-shuttle out of NKP when the crash happened.  I was LM on the bird that was diverted to Clark from a one-time-flight back to CCK to pick up Col. Iosue after he got through explaining all this to the 13th AF/CC.

Quiet flight.

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On 6/4/2014 at 2:36 PM, bobdaley said:

I was at CCK in Dec 1972 when 64-0505 crashed. I knew the AC, Jim Sanborn. I have the accident report on my desk here with the list of all on board. The AC, 2 CP's, 2FE's, No LM- he was in the hotel, 2 army officers, and a civilian female- Panam flight attendant.

 

I was a LM out of CCK at the time (776 TAS)(usual AC at the time was Ted Applebaum). 

One of those FEs was a crew chief someone talked into acting as a scanner.  Crew was in the middle of a Micronesia run, IIRC - lots of stuff out to little islands with no runway to speak of, and not much adult supervision.  The AC had 2 high-time CPs he was supposed to be building hours on for upgrade.  Decided to fly that day on his own, to his detriment.  The NAV opted out also, but was apparently in ops watching.  IIRC, the FA's father was a retired O-6 of some sort.

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On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2014 at 2:36 PM, bobdaley said:

I was at CCK in Dec 1972 when 64-0505 crashed. I knew the AC, Jim Sanborn. I have the accident report on my desk here with the list of all on board. The AC, 2 CP's, 2FE's, No LM- he was in the hotel, 2 army officers, and a civilian female- Panam flight attendant.

Then I went back and looked up all the worldwide Herk accidents in 1968 and 1969.

There were on accidents on Guam in those years.

Bob

If you find out anymore about it please let me know.

Hi Bob This aircraft was Crewed by SSGT. David Hanks and he was dropped off in Okinawa for Altitude Re.Cert. and his assistant Crew Chief was on board and burned badly I don't remember what his name was but it sure changed the way we operated out of CCK from that point on. I think I'm correct on this part. the mind is not what it use to be not that it was ever very sharp.

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