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Mt.crewchief

Individual C-130 Aircraft Main. Forms???

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I was reading the posts on the different levels of training and the diagonals and red x's, and got to thinking about all of the time that we crew chiefs spent on them!!

What was their official name/number? I remember the 781K's in the back that always had to be gone through at every de-briefing upon returning home from CRB etc. etc., but were all of the maint. forms numbered 781's also?

Anyway, what happens to the acft. forms over the years? Do ALL of them stay with the acft. in one way or another? I don't remember what we did with them when they were all signed off etc. I know, it always made me feel good to have my forms (write-ups etc.) kept to minimum! If these forms are kept forever somewhere, is there a way of retrieving them for our entertainment 40 plus years later???

What do you fellow crew chiefs think, wouldn't it be fun to go through them again???

Probably a dumb question, but I'll bet some of you guys know the answers to my question!

Thanks in advance,

Ken Carlson Acft. 62-1804 CCK 1969-70

Acft. 56-475 Naha 1967-1969 (3rd. wiper)

Edited by Mt.crewchief
correcting error

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Ken,

I, for one would love to see the old forms. My recollection is that we initiated discrepancies on the 781a. I would also assume that the records are only kept for a designated number of years or, in this day and age, may be computerized. I seem to remember turning over the completed forms (after carrying forward any open items) to the shift supervisor (you know, the guy in the bread truck who was never around when you needed him. Thank God for anti-collision lights!!)). I also assume he turned them over to operations. Who knows?

Sonny 56-0533 Naha '67-'68

Edited by Sonny
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Ken,

Here is a list of the 781 forms. I believe we used to keep them all on the aircraft. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Sonny

AFTO FORM 781 SERIES

AFTO Form 781, AFORMS (Air Force Operations Resource Management System) Aircrew/

Mission Flight Data Document

AFTO Form 781A, Maintenance Discrepancy and Work Document

AFTO Form 781B, Communications Security (COMSEC) Equipment Record

AFTO Form 781C, Avionics Configuration and Load Status Document

AFTO Form 781D, Calendar and Hourly Item Inspection Document

AFTO Form 781E, Accessory Replacement

AFTO Form 781F, Aerospace Vehicle Flight Report and Maintenance Document

AFTO Form 781G, General Mission Classification

AFTO Form 781H, Aerospace Vehicle Flight Status and Maintenance Document

AFTO Form 781J, Aerospace Vehicle Engine Flight Document

AFTO Form 781K, Aerospace Vehicle Inspection, Engine Data, Calendar Inspection, and

Delayed Discrepancy Document

AFTO Form 781L, Record of Removal/Installation of Controlled Cryptographic Items (CCI)

AFTO Form 781M, Status Symbols and Functional System Codes

AFTO Form 781N, J-79 Engine Runup Record

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While at Sewart we had to account for every minute of the day shift in the forms, then turn them in to the bread truck or the line chief.

I had to account for my time reading the TO,s and cleaning the plane.

I was there Sept 63 till June 65.

I don't remember all the forms we had but that I guess is part of growing old. I don't even remember many of the peoples names.

To be honest about it, I call my wife honey most of the time cause I don't remember her name most of the time, and I also think that is why she calls me honey.

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Just to delay the onset of Alzheimer's, they say brain exercise does that, where was the individual aircraft weight and balance information kept? i was reading these replies and got to thinkin' i can't remember if it was in the 731 stuff or was it part of the W&B. maybe a number like 365 somethin? I can recall the metal folder with the Form F and all, I think the W&B was in it. I once was on a flight out of CCK to the garden party, and there was none of that available. I wrote it up and I THINK I made it a red "X'. I had been taught no W$B stuff, no flyee airplane. Am I all messed up, more than usual???

Giz

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While at Sewart we had to account for every minute of the day shift in the forms, then turn them in to the bread truck or the line chief.

I had to account for my time reading the TO,s and cleaning the plane.

I was there Sept 63 till June 65.

I don't recall having to account for my time until sometime in mid 1968. Then I had to fill out some kind of time form and give it to the bread truck driver at the end of my shift.

Sonny

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Donwon and Sonny those forms for taking time was the AFTO Form 210, 211, and 212. The 210 was used on a daily basis to show job completion and how long it took to do it. 211 and 212 was for other stuff such as TCTO's. They had how mal code, ie 070 broke,( my favorite), number of units etc. then the form was turned in and a key punch operator input this into the system. Later they changed them to a 349 form and even later we went to a system called CAMS where each person input his info into the computer then later we went to another blah blah blah system and now we spend more time on the computer inputing the job than the actual job takes, plus you still have to fill out the paper 781's. Really sucks for the mechanic. And for you Giz the weight and bal forms, 365F, slip stick etc were kept to the right at F.S.245 just as you came into the crew door in a box. Bill

Edited by Spectre623

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Sonny, thanks for clarifying what the form numbers were! The 781's I was most concerned with were the daily ones that I think were pretty plain and white in color. They had a place for the Julian Date, the discrepancy, of course the status or severity of the discrepancy, (the diagonal such as the BPO and Preflight and non-grounding things. and of course the Red X which was a grounding discrepancy such as brakes,tires etc. etc.) Then the bottom half of the action taken or something like that and then of course who signed it off! I do remember that an ongoing discrepancy that required a part or whatever was carried fwd. to the 781K when we got back to home base--usually during de-briefing. The 781K was a cardboard sheet in the back of the forms and was yellow. Does that sound right to you??

I do remember giving the completed forms to the expediter truck driver (bread truck driver).

Now wouldn't it be fun to go back in time and read the forms that you filled out 40 plus years ago!! I do remember the forms were usually dirty because of the dirt, grease, & blood you left on them while signing them off etc. Now, I don't ever remember filling out any forms showing time. Either mine or the specialists time. That's not saying there weren't, I just don't remember doing that.

I remember running the GTC for hours for power because of the lack of MD3's! Of course you had to run it also to turn the rotating beacon on to get the expediter truck driver to come to your plane at night.

Man, what memories!!! Of course, at CRB you wanted to get your plane O.R. as soon as possible so you could get it launched on another mission and get about 7 hours off!! Then, the same thing all over again!!

I do know I couldn't keep that kind of schedule up now,

Ken

By the way Sonny, the 781 A that you enclosed is a little more elaborate than the old ones, but most of the blanks and info needed look familiar!

Edited by Mt.crewchief
adding comment

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By the way Sonny, the 781 A that you enclosed is a little more elaborate than the old ones, but most of the blanks and info needed look familiar!

Ken,

It was the only one I could find on the net. It is different than the ones I remember too, but had all the info. I assumed (there is that word again) it was a newer version.

Sonny

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Donwon and Sonny those forms for taking time was the AFTO Form 210, 211, and 212. The 210 was used on a daily basis to show job completion and how long it took to do it. 211 and 212 was for other stuff such as TCTO's. They had how mal code, ie 070 broke,( my favorite) Bill

Bill,

Thanks, I remember those form numbers now. Just needed a memory jogger. It still seems to me we didn't have to account for time until mid 1968. I only had to do it for a couple of months. Thanks again,

Sonny

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Sonny, thanks for clarifying what the form numbers were! The 781's I was most concerned with were the daily ones that I think were pretty plain and white in color. They had a place for the Julian Date, the discrepancy, of course the status or severity of the discrepancy, (the diagonal such as the BPO and Preflight and non-grounding things. and of course the Red X which was a grounding discrepancy such as brakes,tires etc. etc.) Then the bottom half of the action taken or something like that and then of course who signed it off! I do remember that an ongoing discrepancy that required a part or whatever was carried fwd. to the 781K when we got back to home base--usually during de-briefing. The 781K was a cardboard sheet in the back of the forms and was yellow. Does that sound right to you??Ken

Ken,

That does sound right to me. I believe all the information you are talking about was found on the 781 and 781A. As far as the 781 K being cardboard or yellow. I really don't remember so you could be right.

Sonny

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Hey, Bill, 'bout half an hour after I sent my post, i remembered just what you said. Of course the damn stuff was there. But I Do remember that write-up in the 781. I'm correct about that, I hope?????????? Now where the hell did I leave my shoes????LOL!!!!!!

Giz

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I recall the K's being cardboard in years past. They were almost semi-permanent and some writeups there could be in the forms until the next major depot overhaul.

Thanks for the reply. If the 781K is still on 62-1804, I'll bet it has some of the things I back-ordered that I know I would never get like new seat-covers and the plastic Lockheed cover that went on the yoke hub or whatever it is called. I always was looking for an extra one that I intended to keep for myself!! (never did find one)!!

Ken

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Mt.Crewchief, I'm going to have to get back to this site more often. I too would find it an absolute thrill to go back over those maint. forms. I've asked around a little, but no one seems top think that those old ones back in the early 60s are to be found. But you guys sure dredged up a lot of memories! The grease, oil and blood comment was right on. Back in 1963 through 1967 we never had to keep track of our time. When did that happen? Am I correct in picturing a sheet somewhat larger that todays 81/2 X 11 with two rows of squares about 2x2 with a little square in the upper right corner where the red diadonal or red X went? Geez guys, this is hard on an old man! chris

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The keeping up with your time was in 64 & 65 at Sewart. "D" section.

I don't remember any other times it may have been.

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I too would find it an absolute thrill to go back over those maint. forms. I've asked around a little, but no one seems top think that those old ones back in the early 60s are to be found.

In the Navy prior to computer's taking over the world, forms lasted 10 flights in the Aircraft Discrepancy Book and then went to the trash can... After the computer take-over, it was 6 months in a computer file back-up. With the new system implemented in the last 5 years or so, I think it's held for 3 years in a back-up. < Read, not really accessible to masses in the Military, let alone public.

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In the Navy prior to computer's taking over the world, forms lasted 10 flights in the Aircraft Discrepancy Book and then went to the trash can... After the computer take-over, it was 6 months in a computer file back-up. With the new system implemented in the last 5 years or so, I think it's held for 3 years in a back-up. < Read, not really accessible to masses in the Military, let alone public.

I would guess that is similar to the way our daily maint. forms were handled. (the 781A's anyway). I remember when we got back to home station we went to debriefing and all the open write-up's were scheduled for the various shops and back-ordered items went to the 781K. I guess it would be too much to expect to have all of the maint. forms saved and I didn't really expect them to be. But it would be fun to see how you reacted to situations when you were in charge of a multi-million dollar acft. and only in your early 20's!! (or younger)!!

Ken

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Hey Ken,

Look what I found. Thanks to Steen Lunde, he sent it to me since I was the Crew Chief on 533.

Sonny

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Sonny, that is a real find!! Just looking at it now brings back memories! That is a truly old document that makes me think that there are more similar ones out there somewhere! Just think of how neat it would be to find one with your name on it.

It makes me think there is something similar for Acft 56-475 or 62-1804 out there also.

It just shows that Steen Lunde , having saved that 781 all of these years, has made somebody's day! Yours for sure and mine also!!

Since I was still stationed at Naha during that time, makes it seem more real!!

Thanks for posting this,

Ken

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