TOLD BAG Posted April 12, 2008 Share Posted April 12, 2008 I am interested in the history of these two operational organizations that operated during thye Vietnam era. Maybe in our current era of the 21st. cent. will shed some light; in 1979 I made several inquries and was counseled as to \"keep your mouth and curiosity shut, and get back to work\". What were the qualifications for the flight crew\'s? What locations did the \"flight\'s\" train in, or at? What happened to the crew\'s and maint. personnel when the unit\'s were disbanded? Any info. would be appreciated. Thanks! Kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 14, 2008 Share Posted April 14, 2008 For Heavy Chain---they still have tight lips. There is a website, however.... http://webpages.charter.net/heavychain/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Wilson Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 Eagle Flight was operating out of Rhien Main when I was stationed there 89-93. They were a \"civilian\" company that flew \"parts missions\". What they really did? dunno! Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flarebird Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 If you are looking for info on E flight 21st TCS go to Google and \"google\" E Flight. It was never called Eagle Flight. At the time of it\'s conception the phonetic for E was Easy, then later on it became Echo. Ralph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkeng Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 If you are looking for a reference, Col Jerry Thigpen mentions it in the The \"Praetorian STARShip\" book he wrote. He mentions initial tail numbers (62-1843, 63-7785, 64-0564, and 64-0565), Thin Slice and Heavy Chain. Not being a Special Ops guy, I have no idea if it is a valid book on the Talon community and missions. The folks I know who are still there are tight lipped and right fully so. I wonder if Thigpen got into trouble for writing it? Herkeng (Retired) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Thigpen sent his draft to Maxwell, the Pentagon, and the Agency for review and clearance before the book was published. There was some editing, and as I understand, there is a classified supplement (LIMDIS) buried deep within the vaults of the \"need to know\" areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herkeng Posted July 25, 2008 Share Posted July 25, 2008 Thanks TalonOneTF. Question? What do you think of the book? herkeng Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMcGowan Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The term HEAVY CHAIN has been come to be used for a lot of things, but the actual operation was a special mission in the mid-1960s that involved two C-130Es that were taken out of the Air Force inventory and given to a special unit that was based at Norton AFB, CA. They were an outgrowth of the old CARPETBAGGER mission from World War II that used B-24s to drop agents behind German lines in Occupied Europe. They replaced the B-24s with A-26s which were also part of the HEAVY CHAIN project. There are still some elements of the mission that are classified, primarily because of where they operated. As I understand it, they had one airplane in SEA. I don\'t beleive their airplanes were equipped with the Fulton system, although the two airplanes were later equipped with it after they were spirited back into the Air Force when the project concluded. Jerry Baird was the Ops Officer for the mission and he has told me quite a bit about it, except for the classifed part. They have had some reunions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Heavy Chain\'s C-130s were all 1964 E models. The first two had standard noses, but the second two came from the factory with the Fulton nose configuration. They had the Fulton equipment removed from those two airplanes in the 68-69 timeframe during a depot maintenance interval. The Heavy Chain C-130 operations ended in the early 1970s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardsell Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 If you are looking for a reference, Col Jerry Thigpen mentions it in the The \"Praetorian STARShip\" book he wrote. He mentions initial tail numbers (62-1843, 63-7785, 64-0564, and 64-0565), Thin Slice and Heavy Chain. Not being a Special Ops guy, I have no idea if it is a valid book on the Talon community and missions. The folks I know who are still there are tight lipped and right fully so. I wonder if Thigpen got into trouble for writing it? Herkeng (Retired) No, Thigpen's book was sanctioned and published as an official history by the Air University at Maxwell. And yes, there are still some classified files about Straygoose in the Archives at Maxwell. The book is well worth the purchase; I believe it is also available on-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryRobinson Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 It would probably be good reading but starting at $189.00 on Amazon is just a little out of my reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Davenport Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 It would probably be good reading but starting at $189.00 on Amazon is just a little out of my reach. you can download it online for free Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thud105 Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Skip, Can you give me the coordinates to the download site ? 189.00 is a bit out of my grasp as well ! THANKS as always Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KF4DVG Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Book is an awesome read. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Davenport Posted June 6, 2009 Share Posted June 6, 2009 Skip, Can you give me the coordinates to the download site ? 189.00 is a bit out of my grasp as well ! THANKS as always Frank I'm checking with someone that downloaded -- will get back with you when I know. You might want to try an email to AFSOC historian at Hurbie -- they might still have some copies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Should be able to get it from the Maxwell website - Air University Press...on horribly slow dial-up, or would go find it for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobWoods Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) Try http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/50218677 click on hot link purl.access.gpo.gov Edited June 7, 2009 by BobWoods Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herkyload1 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/au/thigpen.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Davenport Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 Try this – the Air University Press website: http://aupress.maxwell.af.mil/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessdr Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) I am interested in the history of these two operational organizations that operated during thye Vietnam era. Maybe in our current era of the 21st. cent. will shed some light; in 1979 I made several inquries and was counseled as to \"keep your mouth and curiosity shut, and get back to work\". What were the qualifications for the flight crew\'s? What locations did the \"flight\'s\" train in, or at? What happened to the crew\'s and maint. personnel when the unit\'s were disbanded? Any info. would be appreciated. Thanks! Kurt Kurt, The mission of E flight varied over the years. It was different in the 21st TCS era and in the Vietnam era than when I was in it from 1984-1987. It certainly would have been different again if flying out of Rhein Mein as someone indicated at a later date. My recollection was that you needed to be instructor qualified, but I don't recall any other special quals other than being able to get a TS-SCI clearance. I can personally dispell the rumor that you were shot once you left the unit. The crews and maintenance were actually not a separate unit, but were members of other units who flew or supported particular missions (at least when I was a member). If anyone knows where to send a FOIA request concerning current classification status, please let me know at [email protected]. I have made several attempts to see if any aspect of this program has been declassified, and I cannot find a unit (e.g., 345th at Yokota or PACAF at Hickam) that even recognizes the program existed. I don't know about E flight but for Heavy Chain you could check with the Big Safari program office at Wright Patt. They were responsible for developing Heavy Chain. Bob Edited December 23, 2011 by bobdaley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMcGowan Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 Look guys, E Flight and Heavy Chain were two entirely different and unrelated projects. E Flight was set up at Naha in 1961 because JFK wanted to maintain a covert presence in Laos. There was already a similar role at Naha for support of operations in Tibet, but it wasn't named. Heavy Chain was a project at Norton that was set up in 1965 with two airplanes right off of the assembly line and personnel from Sewart. Its role was to test new equipment installed at Ontario. E Flight was actually an extra flight within the 21st TCS that was responsible for maintaining four airplanes that were designated for CIA activities. Heavy Chain was broken up sometime in the seventies and the airplanes went to Hurlburt. There was another mission performed by the same unit that involved transporting classified documents and CIA personnel that is related to Heavy Chain. The term "E Flight" goes back to the 1950s according to 315th Air Division veterans, and was used as a code for CIA missions. Kennedy made it official. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMcGowan Posted December 18, 2011 Share Posted December 18, 2011 If you are looking for a reference, Col Jerry Thigpen mentions it in the The \"Praetorian STARShip\" book he wrote. He mentions initial tail numbers (62-1843, 63-7785, 64-0564, and 64-0565), Thin Slice and Heavy Chain. Not being a Special Ops guy, I have no idea if it is a valid book on the Talon community and missions. The folks I know who are still there are tight lipped and right fully so. I wonder if Thigpen got into trouble for writing it? Herkeng (Retired) I've got a lot of problems with this book. For one thing, he claims the C-130E-Is were "taken off of TAC flight lines." No, they weren't; they were brand new airplanes, all 64 serials. I was in the 779th at Pope when we got them and saw the first one up close after attending a classified briefing on the mission and what we would be doing. He also claims they were moved to Sewart due to a "lack of room" at Pope. Heck, we had two squadrons TDY at that time! One squadron was at Kadena - which never did go back to Pope but went PCS to 315th Air Division as the 776th TCS. If I remember correctly, he really doesn't say much about Heavy Chain at all and nothing about E Flight, which was a troop carrier mission and never was special operations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessdr Posted January 26, 2013 Share Posted January 26, 2013 Sam, the E Flight mission changed over the years. I would not characterize E flight in the 80s as a "troop carrier mission." We were not simply ferrying planes to the point where some other agency got in and took over the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamMcGowan Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 The 1980s mission and the original E Flight mission were not the same. E Flight was a specific mission that was set up to support CIA operations using C-130As from Naha, particularly in Laos. Heavy Chain was set up in 1965 to support test missions in California. That's the problem with military projects- they're set up for one thing and people twenty years later claim to have been part of them when it was an entirely different mission altogether. Sam, the E Flight mission changed over the years. I would not characterize E flight in the 80s as a "troop carrier mission." We were not simply ferrying planes to the point where some other agency got in and took over the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 During the 1980's, there was no such thing as an "E Flight" in either of the 374 TAW's airlift squadrons. The wing did have some recurring classified missions. They were SAMs (not SAAMs)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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