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Aero Precision provides OEM part support for military aircraft operators across more than 20 aircraft
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BobWoods

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Its great to refresh a 40 year old mind it comes back real quick I could me running engines like it was yesterday

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Guest cobra935o

I\'m kinda surprised someone put those online!

Nathan

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cobra935o wrote:

I\'m kinda surprised someone put those online!

Nathan

Yeah me to Nathan! T.O.\'s are normally strictly controlled; even if they are archived copies.

DaveB)

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Nathan,

I\'m not very surprised seeing an old E-model flight manual being posted onlne. Not very much classified stuff there.

As I\'ve mentioned on this board in other posts, there\'s a company in Colorado where you can purchase a flight manual for just about any airplane -- from a C-47 up to & including the F-117A Nighthawk!

Don R.

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There is zero/no classified info in any dash-1. It\'s an unclassified manual, however, it is technical info that is controlled by Arms Export Control Act of 1979. So anything older will not have the distribution statement on it like newer ones do.

However, just because there is no distribution statement does not mean the manual is not subject to the above law. It should not be made freely available on the internet.

It also falls under the common sense laws - just because something is unclassified does not mean it should be made readily available. There are a lot of capabilities & limitations that can be gleaned from flight manuals that may be useful to folks wishing to deny certain types of operations...or worse.

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Guest cobra935o

+1 on US Herks comments, which is exactly what I was talking about but didnt lay out in the post, maybe I should have made that more clear when I posted earlier (I have been a security manager for the last few years).

Also it does still surprise me there is a company in Colorado that is able to sell -1\'s from an F-117 or any other airplane, to anyone and everyone who comes up with the cash. I can understand how a C-47s book isnt going to hurt anyone, but some of the others!

Nathan

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Not having been on the Herk in 20 years, and never on a commercial Herk, did\'t the civilians and other countires get a -1 of sorts when they bought a bird?

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All export countries except UK got dash-1 (RAF made up their own books). This came with certain restrictions on use and distribution of technical info. All foreign export comes with restrictions on use & distribution.

Civilian operators got LTM-type info - unknown what type of distro restrictions, if any, were in place.

Both largely irrelevant. Info restricted by arms control export act shouldn\'t be independently verified by mil users simply because non-mil users have released it incorrectly...

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I just dug out my old military 1C-130H-1 (22 May 84) & my commercial OM 382G (12 October 1990) for airframe #5225. The -1 has the following distribution statement: \"This publication is required for official use or for administrative or operational purposes only. Distribution is limited to US Government agencies. Other requests for this document must be referred to Warner Robins ALC/MMEDT, Robins AFB, GA 31098-5609.\"

The OM 382G has only a copyright date -- no restrictions on its distribution.

Don R.

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Whilst I agree that these publications should be restricted, in the real world at least with the C130 you can obtain them easely.

I have one sitting here right now, did not come from your Air Force or mine, downloaded from the Captain Sim website.

I can recall after Ernie's remarks the first RAF C130K that came to Richmond. They had hand flown the airplane from the UK, because at that stage they could not get the Smiths auto pilot to work.

The load master had no dash 9, and did not even know that with the GTC running he could raise and lower the ramp.

The FE had a piece of foolscap paper full of notes which he shared with the drivers and that was their dash 1.

Damn thinks I this is a bit hairy, went and found them an E model dash 1 and copy of the dash 9 and they were over the moon, Why the Britts elected to go the way they did I will never know. Our E's and their K were actually coming down the line at the same time.

However I am amzed at what publications are offered by that company mentioned early.

Aboard closed checked

Col

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Since we've resurrected this post, here's what's on the front of one of my older dash-1 (1 Oct 98):

Distribution Statement: Distribution authorized to the Department of Defense and U.S. DoD Contractors only (Administrative or Operational Use) (1 Oct 1998). Questions concerning technical content should be directed to WR-ALC/LUTD. Other requests for this document shall be referred to WR-ALC/LUTD, Robins AFB, GA 31098.

WARNING - This document contains technical data whose export is restricted by the Arms Export Control Act (Title 22, U.S.C., Sec. 2751 et seq.) or the Export Administration Act of 1979, as amended (Title 50, U.S.C., App. 2401 et seq.). Violations of these export laws are subject to severe criminal penalties.

HANDLING AND DESTRUCTION NOTICE - Comply with distribution statement and destroy by any method that will prevent disclousre of the contents or reconstruction of the document.

My current dash-1 is at work, under my desk, but I'm confident it says something similar.

My old slick dash-1 dated 1 Jun 89 has the identical distro, warning, & destruction notices on it.

The 1970 A-model dash-1 I have on the shelf has no distribution statement that I can find. Perhaps the export and arms export acts mentioned in the newer ones changed all of that.

So, DC10FE, I'll bet there's the same warning under your distro statement about harsh criminal penalties.

Folks, it's not about classified info, it's about protecting unclassified info - OPSEC. Just because something is available, doesn't mean we should validate it on an open forum. Basic OPSEC.

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US Herk,

How much you wanna bet? Hopefully I won't be violating any "Basic OPSEC" regulations by copying this page, but here's all my 1985 book tells me.

Don R.

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Guest

I wonder what they were thinking when they included in the distribution statement:

"Distribution is limited to US Government Agencies"

Edited by TalonOneTF

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US Herk,

How much you wanna bet? Hopefully I won't be violating any "Basic OPSEC" regulations by copying this page, but here's all my 1985 book tells me.

Don R.

Wow - surprising since it post-dates the Arms Export act of '79...

Still, basic OPSEC tells us to protect unclassified info...

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Hmmm...these discussions about obsolete pubs and OPSEC kind of reminds me of the safety "privileged information" message reports used to be broadcast on AIGs to the universe, and using cell phones aboard airplanes. You can't stop it unless you use draconian control measures and that ain't gonna happen, so the point is it ain't truly important...if it was, it would be controlled (maybe)

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Wow - surprising since it post-dates the Arms Export act of '79...

Ahh another crap product from a crap president (unfortunately I think this moron we have now will make carter look like Einstein!)

Dan

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