Jump to content
Aero Precision provides OEM part support for military aircraft operators across more than 20 aircraft
Sign in to follow this  
1685FCC

Oxygen Bottle TCTO?

Recommended Posts

Hey all! I am looking for some information on a couple of subjects and thought that someone might know what I\'m talking about.

First subject: Do any of you remember back a few years ago when we were having to move the pilots and copilots O2 walkaround bottles to the galley wall when installing flight deck armor? I am looking for the TCTO or OTI that bascially stopped us from doing this anymore. I noticed in the 00GE-00-1 under armor installation that the slick as removed this task, however, the T1, T2, and MC-P still have this listed as a task. I am trying to do a Form 22 to have this removed from the armor installation for these aircraft.

Second subject: How about outer main landing gear door pins? I remember back around \'99 or \'00 there was an OTI (i think) that made a standard gear door pin configuration. Do any of you know what pin the OTI called for? Was it the \"T\" type pip pin or the push/pull kind?

I know that these are kind of off the wall Q\'s, but I can\'t find any more information on these and it\'s just one of those things I just want to find out about. Thanks!

DaveB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

I was in the Navy with the Herk...and really do not know what a OTI is but we had a one-time inspection (AFB) to insure that the door pins were all the push pin style. Even the inner doors.

Sorry could not help more then that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question I have, are you still trying to move the bottles? It was stopped because there was no reason to move them. The bottles should remain where they are readily accessable, arms reach, and the bottles will not explode since they are low pressure O2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C130H2FE wrote:

Question I have, are you still trying to move the bottles? It was stopped because there was no reason to move them. The bottles should remain where they are readily accessable, arms reach, and the bottles will not explode since they are low pressure O2.

No they haven\'t been moving them, but I just want to make the change to the tech data to alleviate any confusion.

DaveB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The bottles were moved when the sextant was removed from the 245 wall. There was a lot of real estate available, so the bottles were moved back there.

Personally, it seems better if the armor is installed to have them mounted back there. BUT, I\'m not a crew member that would require a portable oxygen bottle at a millisecond\'s notice, so my opinion is not worth these keystrokes.

Maybe someone who was in the circumstance to need the bottle next to the seat can chime in.

There was a message/TCTO that came out moving the bottles back to the positions next to the seats. I\'d have to dig for that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

While we were at the \'Dorf that change came out to move them to the galley wall. The issue was then brought up with that relocation it would prevent the pilot from expeditiously egressing the aircraft due to the space between the FEs seat and the bottles on the wall. Especially with body armor on. So, trying to make a long story short but failing, we (QA) put in a change to relocate them to the front side of FS 245, as Tiny had mentioned where the sextant was since it was going to be removed. The change was approved but I never seen it take place. I am now over in the dirt flying (as an FE) with the Rock and on a couple of Cheyenne aircraft and all the brackets are in their original location and the bottles are pulled and put on the bunk.

I don\'t believe they were going to be relocated to the galley wall out of fear of explosiveness, because the relocation put them about head/shoulder level of everyone in the flt deck, above any armor mating.

Since we are on the subject of O2 bottles. When a bottle is empty what is the proper purge procedure to reservice it? As a newbie Crew Chief in the early, early 90s I was taught service and drain 3 times, then service. Back then I would never question a Vietnam Vet expediter (if I seen him today I probably still wouldn\'t) and never seen it in writing. So anybody have any words of wisdom or tech data knowledge to pass along?

Thanks,

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Used to be if the bottle was less than 50 PSI but more than zero you charge and drain the bottle three times, charge and store.

If it was zero you had to turn it in for depot inspection.

Reason being, if it was zero, certain things inflight can result in a negative pressure and this would let the bottle pull in cabin air and assorted junk, so they had to be returned to have the regulator removed and bottle interior inspected for rust or garbage.

But then again I remember time changes on engines, and gear struts too.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan,

Thanks for the response and this makes sense if you have replacements available, but it isn\'t feasible when you are on the road with an empty bottle because the valve got bumped. I know it is to clean/dry out any moisture/contaminants that may have begun in the bottle. So is the three times \"hot purge\" an effective measure and is there a reference to go with it? This isn\'t to start a pissing contest or stay somewhere cool for a few extra days, I\'m in the dirt so there is no leaving just more staying, this more so for discussion and passing info. Thanks again.

Later,

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Tiny!! Let me get this straight. There really wasn\'t any TCTO for the O2 bottle relocation, it was just a T.O. change within the GE, correct? Thanks for all the posts! Secondly, is anyone putting the O2 bottles on the 245 wall?????

Also, does anyone have any info concerning the Outer MLG Door prop rod pins??? I just need to know what pin the OTI?? was calling for. Was it the \"T\" type pin or the push/pull type? I hope this makes sense and some of you know what I am talking about and not confusing anyone. Thanks again!

DaveB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan, that is what I thought as well. I have a little side bet with another crew chief that the round pins are the right pin for the door, not the other types. I just wish I could get my hands on the OTI that came out back in \'99 or \'00, that would solve this whole little bet. The thing is when you order these pins from the -4 you get the \"T\" type? I still think I\'m right, but maybe somebody can prove me wrong?

Thanks!

DaveB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

Im pretty sure its the \"T\" pin and ill dig up the OTI tonight. Reason being is the \"T\" type require you to physicall push in the button, where as the push pull could actually fall out. Pretty positive the -4 is correct. Im not going all in or anything, and ill verify in a few hours. Also, our DOPP checklists call out the correct Part # also, ill check that one as well.

One of our guys at dyess proposed that the dog leg should be removed completely before flight and stowed in the aircraft since there is no use for this in flight. He got paid like $6k.

Also, as far as i know we have not relocated the firebottles to the bunk in years with armor installed.

Not to thread jack or anything, but a gee whiz for ya, why are the radome alignment tools stored in the NLG. At what point are you ever gonna use those in flight. Seems pretty silly to me. Just stow them in the galley or put them in CTK. Heck i dont think i have ever actually used them on the radome.

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

\"T\" type require you to physicall push in the button, where as the push pull could actually fall out

????? They are EXACTLY the same in operation, the only difference is the shape of the head and or pin diameter.

You still have to push a button to allow the pips to retract allowing the pin to be withdrawn or inserted.

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dan Wilson wrote:

????? They are EXACTLY the same in operation, the only difference is the shape of the head and or pin diameter.

You still have to push a button to allow the pips to retract allowing the pin to be withdrawn or inserted.

Dan

Dan I think I know what he is talking about, here goes. The rounded head type of pip pin actually moves both directions. What I mean is you can pull the center plunger or push the plunger to remove the pin. The \"T\" type is a push only type of plunger. Now having either or really doesn\'t make a difference to me as long as you don\'t use the key ring on the push/pull type and hook it up to the lanyard. Doing so may cause the pin to pull out of the retainer during gear operations, if the lanyard (chain) were to get snagged and pull the pin out. This is why the OTI may have come about in the first place, that\'s what I am trying to figure out??

I hate mysteries!

DaveB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AAAAHHHHSOOOOO

Yes your quite right, that is the difference between the pin types. I forgot all about that!!! Remember removing the pins by pulling the chain and installing the pins by pushing in the button.

Danke!!

Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

That is exactly it. Im sorry but i didnt find the OTI been busy. I will come up with it, and im sure we have it. We have quite alot of archive stuff.

From what i remember...and i have to verify this. The current pin actually has two retaining pips on the end to keep it secure. The other style pin only has one creating a greater chance it could fall out and then obviously cause the damage and problems that occured in that past from this.

Now of course on the other end of the spectrum anytime we had any incidents like this the most obvious question was, was the pin installed backwards. Which of course was never admitted to. Stranger even was that usualy in these situations it alwasy seem to happen that the crew chief or another mechanic \"Airman\" was the one who actually pinned the gear, not the FE. In any event, i always teach my guys to pin the gear properly no matter what they are doing, just like the prop arc, to build good habits. Then again no matter how much you try to create good habits, we still have people leaving the pins out of toilet bowls on 15 days so, what do you do. There is always gonna be that guy. Just glad maintenance caught it and it wasnt on engine start....3 different motors on the same plane....DOH!

Could have made for and interesting engine start though. Turning 3, POOF..stop start..service....Turning 3 again....Turning 4....POOF...stop start..shoot crew chief.....get my drift...would have been a very bad day.

Max

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe they still had only one pip on the end, just different styles of plunger?? Like you said just need to verify. I thought we would have that OTI laying around in our Archives as well, but we don\'t! I had our TODO email one of her contacts for some help, but we haven\'t heard anything yet. Thanks again!

DaveB)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

just like the prop arc

Wow! Do they still preach that? I always thought that was a holdover from the recip days. I used to get jacked up all the time for that felony!!

Don R.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DC10FE wrote:

Wow! Do they still preach that? I always thought that was a holdover from the recip days. I used to get jacked up all the time for that felony!!

Don R.

Yes - apparently the AFOSH isn\'t specific enough - there is a note for C-130 aircraft that w/o bleed air there is no danger. But people still teach it and put it in local sups \"just to be safe\" - like a Herk prop is just gonna start spinning...

I understand habit patterns, but it\'s pretty obvious when the APU/GTC is running, or an M60 is hooked up & screaming or, better yet, an engine is running...most folks avoid all those things simply because of the noise alone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DC10FE wrote:

Wow! Do they still preach that? I always thought that was a holdover from the recip days. I used to get jacked up all the time for that felony!!

Don R.

Yea Don...they still preach it on the military side of things...on the civilian side you would get your butt chewed for waste time walking around the props

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, but if you work around different engine types, it\'s still not a bad idea to automatically stay out of the arc. If you are out of the arc.. you won\'t walk into it at night when you can\'t see it.

There are still occasions where it happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I once had a QA guy try to jack me for walking thru the prop arc while the aircraft was cribbed in the hangar with #3 removed. Needless to say we had words and the write-up never made it to paper, common sense prevailed. The -1 also has a Warning: Personnel will not be in the vicinity of or go through the static propeller arc (bleed air on or off) unless absolutely necessary in the performance of duties.

As for the Bottle placement I recently found paperwork from Little Rock QA stating that Lockheed suggested not moving the bottles and to leave them installed in their original location with armor installed. They were going to remove the change from the 00GE. I\'ll have to pull it up to find the date and exact verbage.

Later.

Mike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jetcal1 wrote:

Yup, but if you work around different engine types, it\'s still not a bad idea to automatically stay out of the arc. If you are out of the arc.. you won\'t walk into it at night when you can\'t see it.

There are still occasions where it happens.

Your right, it does still happen. This is no shit...I was part of the investigation on both incidences. Said mechanic working for a regional airline flying out of Chicago (MDW) walked into a turning prop on a Beech 1900...it did not kill him but gave his a deep gash on the head and shoulder. Investigation showed human factor causes of max overtime work, pressure to get the aircraft turned and out again, and twilight. Seven months later, the same mechanic walked into a turning prop again...again it did not kill him cut his shoulder, arm, lost a couple fingers. Human Factor causes..who cares the guy was a idiot and was terminated for cause.

So yes, it does happen but a little situational awareness goes a long way. My bottom line is if the GTC/APU is running, or air-cart is hooked up and running I steer clear of prop arc\'s

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...