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Career Herk Driver is New CSAF


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Guest cobra935o

I thought I just saw that he was going to retire! It is good news to see ole Norty get THE job. He was at my ALS graduation when I was stationed at Hurlburt! He also flew the last fulton on the T1 while I was there.


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The significance is (besides having a pure C-130 pilot lead our Air Force) this is the first time since our inception that the Chief of Staff of the Air Force has gone to someone who is not a bomber or fighter pilot. It shows how dissatisfied SECDEF was in the direction that the AF was going. Having the announcement occur during Corona at Wright-Pat set a clear message to AF General Officers: the status quo is going to change.

How incredibly fortunate, and proud, we are to have Gen Schwartz lead our Air Force!


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Saw Gen Schwartz at the Talon Reunion a couple weeks ago - he spoke at the memorial on Sun - great man & glad he got the nod. Rumor was that he was going to retire later this year - guess that\'s on hold...

He comes from some pretty humble beginnings, but is a true warrior and remembers his roots.

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I know Norty and have flow with him as a Capt and a Col. He is a true warrior and forward thinker. Now according to this A-hole we Herk crews are not \"warriors\". Well, he is in for a rude awaking. Yes, Norty will bring a different background to the office. My opinion. Exactly what the AF needs. He knows all AF personnel are warriors -- not just \"stick-and-throttle boys\". Also, he knows all men and women in all the armed forces are warriors. Plus, he knows the \"total force\" concept and what it will take to get there.

Schwartz would bring different background as Air Force chief

BY: John Nolan, Dayton Daily News


Gen. Norton A. Schwartz, recommended by Defense Secretary Robert Gates

to become the next Air Force chief of staff, would be the first in

decades not to come from a background as an Air Force bomber or fighter

pilot, Pentagon watchers said Tuesday, June 10.

What that might mean in terms of any policy changes remains to be seen,

assuming that Schwartz is approved by President Bush and the Senate for

the top military position in the Air Force, the observers said.

Schwartz\'s biography shows a background in mobility and special

operations, with experience as a pilot of C-130 transport aircraft and

AC-130 attack planes. The 35-year Air Force veteran is currently at

Scott Air Force Base, Ill., as commander of the U.S. Transportation

Command, which manages global air, sea and land transportation for the

Defense Department.

Loren Thompson, a defense analyst with the Lexington Institute in

Arlington, Va., said he thinks Schwartz\'s background could provide a

fresh perspective for an Air Force that has been pushing hard for more

F-22 fighter aircraft and F-35 joint strike fighters.

\"When most of the Air Force leadership is drawn from a small community

of warfighters, their needs and their experiences tend to dominate all

deliberations,\" Thompson said.

\"Right now, it (the Air Force) is planning to buy nearly 2,000 fighters

over the next 25 years. You could reasonably guess that those plans will

be cut back and that other plans will take shape.\"

Gates ousted Air Force Secretary Michael Wynne and Chief of Staff Gen.

Michael Moseley last week, after receiving a report critical of the Air

Force\'s handling and transport of nuclear weapons. But, Gates has

previously criticized the Air Force for what he saw as foot-dragging in

deploying more unmanned aerial vehicles in Iraq and Afghanistan to do

surveillance in support of U.S. ground troops.

A spokeswoman said Schwartz was not available for comment Tuesday at

Scott Air Force Base, where Gates was visiting to address airmen.

Jed Babbin, a former defense undersecretary under the first President

George Bush, said he doesn\'t know Schwartz and will wait to see what he

does when confirmed. Babbin, now editor of the Washington-based

conservative publication Human Events, said he doesn\'t necessarily like

the idea of having an Air Force chief of staff without a background as a

fighter or bomber pilot.

\"You need some of the stick-and-throttle boys,\" Babbin said. \"You have

to have warriors to do the business of war.\"

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His humble beginings were as a Trash Hauler, in the old 21st TAS,

for a man who who has acheived what he has, I also remember the

IP who took Norty on his first Pilot Trainer at Clark, JGH Jackson, telling us we better nice to him, we would be working for him


Rg Glenn:woohoo:

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What a deal. We finally get a 130 guy as CSAF. I really hope General Schwartz and General Fraser can fix the F-Ups the fighter boys have left in their wake. I think nothing but good things can come from their appointments.

Time for a rant (just my 2 cents):angry:

Priority 1 is to bring back the \"SAC\" way of dealing with the nuclear weapons programs. \"To err is human, to forgive is not SAC policy\" comes to mind. Schwartz and Fraser were selected by Gates to remedy the erosion in how our folks handle and manage the program. This is why Mosley and Wynn got the axe and why McNabb did not move into the top spot. No notice CEVG inspections, and a zero tolerance for failings.

Over the years I have watched the TAC/ACC world systematically destroy what took smarter people to build.I\'ve watched the uniform fiascos unfold. What the heck was wrong with the uniform from the 60\'s, 70\'s and 80\'s other than the wool blend? Did we need to look like Delta pilots, did we need the aircrew name tags on BDUS? Did we need silver name tags? Did we need each CSAF to become a fashion designer? What the heck happened to being smart stewards of the tax payers money? Give the uniform thing a rest.

The next thing was renaming all the commands? Gee, lets do this while we are having a huge draw down and closing tons of bases. Nothing like telling SSgt Snuffy, \"Sorry bud we can\'t afford you anymore but hey, check out the money we are going to spend to put our new shields on everything from Front gates, letter heads, patches etc.

Then we have the TAC/ACC fighter folks decide that regulations were not good enough for today\'s force, lets spend lots of money and change them to instructions. Give me a break, instructions are what you read when you are putting a bike together for your kid on Christmas eve, they are not for a military organization.

We can cover the acquisition process, nah better not even open that messed up bag or worms. That is going to need a lot of attention and I hope the new Boss can kick some A$$ in fixing how we got to the point we can\'t even get what the troops need.

Right now we have to eliminate more manpower so we can get more fighters. That means a shop where the UMD used to say required 6 troops to do the job is running on 4. Of those 4, 2 are deployed and manpower says we need to cut 2 more. Hello, earth to fighter guy, now wonder the troops are bailing out. How about less new toys and keeping our manning levels to a point where the guys and gals can do their jobs?

How about this, AFSOC will no longer be a red headed step child of the USAF and a command slot for a fighter guy. Let the snake eaters run their own show and let them be on equal footing with the rest of the force. :)

:angry: Last but not least, since the TAC/AAC boys killed off SAC, maybe Schwartz will at least let the SAC emblem remain SAC\'s. This new clownish idea of giving Cyber Command the SAC emblem is an insult to all of those that were in that command. I thing a \"Blue screen\" on a computer monitor is more fitting for the new command.

Rant Complete

HERKENG (retired)

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Well said Herkeng....I totally agree. I almost had a heart attack when they shot down SAC....My first 5 years were in SAC (1958-1963) and I can still remember the total requirement to follow the regs or else! And the two man concept was the law! Oh how I wish the entire AF was like it was back in the 50-60s...no one in the world would even think about getting froggy with us.....Now look at all the reserves and guard folks taking up the slack...God bless them.

Sure hope we see some positive changes in the near future.


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With regard to changes in the near future....

I think the first order of business is for the new CSAF to evaluate and re-align those key staff people that:

1) provide information directly to him on requirements, and

2) support (or resist) decisions that are made at the top.

My guess is that real change will not be implemented in the very near future; it may be 6 months to a year, or more before the impact of the new leader will actually become noticeable.

While Mosely and Wynn got the axe, you can bet that a lot of fault for the problems in today\'s Air Force are the result of the attitudes of some of the staff members. A good house-cleaning may be in order....

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I agree with you TalonOneTF. Granted not all TAC/ACC guys are jerks, anymore than all us trash haulers are good guys. We need some people to hop in there and do the right thing. We don\'t need a leader to sell out principle to be part of the \"club\".

To quote one of the most outspoken fighter guys of all time, and someone I have respect for as a leader:

\"One day you will come to a fork in the road. And you\'re going to have to make a decision about what direction you want to go.If you go that way you can be somebody. You will have to make compromises and you will have to turn your back on your friends. But you will be a member of the club and you will get promoted and you will get good assignments,Or you can go that way and you can do something - something for your country and for your Air Force and for yourself. If you decide to do something, you may not get promoted and you may not get the good assignments and you certainly will not be a favorite of your superiors. But you won\'t have to compromise yourself. You will be true to your friends and to yourself. And your work might make a difference. To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That\'s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?\" Colonel John Boyd.

Maybe the new CSAF will make the club rules change to be based on making a difference not compromises!

Herkeng (retired)

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Thanks, Herkeng,

I think we share similar opinions.

Many of us with a lot of years on Herks feel that General Schwartz had to do a lot of things right to get to his current position. By the same token, Mosely also had to do a lot of things right to reach that same spot. I feel that if Mosely had really known that critical procedures were not being followed, he would have dropped the hammer on some hard-headed jocks at lower levels. He was not effective only because his staff let him down.

I think Transport Commanders might possibly have a broader perspective on large operations, because of the masses of personnel involved in coordinating major events.

But as I said, there are likely some weak links existing in that current chain of command. Finding and fixing those weak areas should be the first priority.

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  • 1 year later...

His humble beginings were as a Trash Hauler, in the old 21st TAS,

for a man who who has acheived what he has, I also remember the

IP who took Norty on his first Pilot Trainer at Clark, JGH Jackson, telling us we better nice to him, we would be working for him


Rg Glenn:woohoo:

actually, if I recall, Norty was first assigned to the 776TAS (circa 1975) until it was deactivated and most of us "Red Lions" went over to the 21TAS (Beeliners). I recall flying with Norty into Saigon (Operation Frequent Wind) when he just pinned on 1LT.

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Over the years while Norty was flying in the 21TAS, I had the opportunity to fly with him on several occassions. On RONs, while most of the crew went out on "extra curricula activities", Norty was studying his Dash-1. Even back then, we recognized his leadership qualities and always remarked someday we would be working for him. Now, many years later, we're retired and he's still going. I teach leadership classes to students pursuing their graduate degree in educational leadership, and one leaderhsip philosophy I have my students read is Norty's epic speech on "The Chemistry of Leadership": http://www.aptusc.org/includes/getpdf.php?f=Lt_Gen_Schwartz_Speech_2003.pdf. No wonder that Sec Gates selected him to lead the AF.

Edited by Runner
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