wysongj Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 http://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2009/10/airforce_sudan_102809w/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRSmith Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 My heart goes out to these folks--damn the Air Force can screw up more stuff instead of taking care of its people--My hat is off to the AC and crew for their professionlism during a tough situation Smitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INS/Dopplertroop Posted October 28, 2009 Share Posted October 28, 2009 It's always because someone up the chain is trying to CYA! LTC Austin doesn't deserve another command. Maybe ought to be booted out, but that won't happen because the next guy up is CYA ing. Kudos and Thank You crew. Kudos Air Force Times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muff Millen Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 That really pisses me off that it was not reported back in 2006.....what is so secret ablut flying a humanitarian mission...so what if it happened to be Darfor. Also why in hell didnt they get real air support after the first hour that they were on the ground. And then for their commander to not report the full details to higher really should not go unpunished. lAnd for the 3 star to downgrade to an achievement medal....what a joke! As for the PTSD and depression...if all this had been reported there would be no trouble verifying their disability. I see guys every day at the VA hospital that are trying to prove their VN service but because they were TDY there is very little record of their service in VN. Another word for all you active dty folks....document ALL your TDY keep orders, trip travel vouchers. Names and home states of the buddies you work with. Some day 15-20 or even 35 years from now when you come down with the hoochcoochies...that was from service in who knows where you will have proff that you were there. Also a list of old friends and their home states will help in keeping in touch and also verifying what you are trying to prove. Oh yea...thanks for serving. Muff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoedog Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 wow...im speechless my jaw was on the floor for the whole article...but to read that worthless oxygen stealing LTC downgraded their medals...it makes me ashamed...sounds like he needs to be cut trained into being a walmart greeter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwylie Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Also, save your pictures. Like Muff says, save everything that can help you prove that you were in a combat zone. A friend's widow is now receiving over $900.00 a month because after years of being turned down, we were able to prove 'boots on the ground' through friends testimonials and pictures. God knows she deserves it. Pat Wylie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Wilson Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Wow Chris really screwed the pooch on this one, wonder what the hell happened to him, he was always a pretty good guy but then again people change; OR he could be some other POS general ossifers fall guy too. Often the truth isnt what actually comes to light. And WTF is up with the zeros getting bronze stars and the smelly little E's getting a commendation medal with valor? A international incident like this really warrants more than a crappy little commendation medal. Kinda like the commendation medal Mr Meth, ex SMSgt AB George Parsons gave me when I left ABQ as a MSgt, threw that thing in the garbage and I can bet the E's feel just as pissed about a worthless commendation medal in this situation. As for the crew, I am really glad they got out of it okay, its really bad that some of them ended up with a brain screw over it. Just really glad they are finally getting SOME kind of recognition for it. Personally I would have recommended taxing through the soldiers with all four weed eaters going. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACAF Posted October 29, 2009 Share Posted October 29, 2009 Sounded to me like somebody was doing a personal favor for someone for brownie points. Hence the reason for not getting air support, no reporting actual events, and the crew being told no flights had gone out. A simple fly in to pick up a VIP hubby so he could be with the wife. Also noticed this guy wasn't even there when they got there and had been gone five days! Yep, somebody got caught doing a favor and their buddies had to CYA everybody at the cost of these poor guys. What about the SRA that physically held the crew entrance door closed? How hard would it have been to catch a round through that thin 18 ga sheet metal? Sounds as though the whole crew should have gotten Bronze Stars. But, like in Nam, it was usually the zeros that got the medals, some didn't even go on the missions! Really sad what happened to this whole crew and the people responsible got away scott free. Although they were disappointed in the down grades, you can rest assured it didn't affect their love for our country. A salute to the whole crew. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GACFaja Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 And WTF is up with the zeros getting bronze stars and the smelly little E's getting a commendation medal with valor? A international incident like this really warrants more than a crappy little commendation medal. Dan And for the maintainers...nothing. I know the maintainers that were on that mission and they received nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airnav Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 I was having a good day until I read this........ Just WTF is an Air Force Achievement Medal for Valor anyway? It's a joke! When the UAV operator's were getting Air Medal's it ruined my appreciation for my own Air Medal's. I sure am glad that I am retired, and don't have to put up with this kind of B.S.. I am embarrased for the crew. A damn shame! The Air Force Achievement Medal is nothing more than a glorified merit badge for an adult! Kurt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaprad Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 And for the maintainers...nothing. I know the maintainers that were on that mission and they received nothing. That's SOP nowadays. When I was a FCC, I was listed as crew for about the first three missions I flew, then some Colonel said that Maintainers would not be listed as aircrew and we would be listed as PAX. I got twice as many missions needed for an Aerial Achievement medal, but can't get one since I'm listed as a passenger on all my orders. Seems like the Air Force has really put taking care of people on the back burner the past ten years. I have friends still in who have the same issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APG85 Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 (edited) Harrowing story. Pretty poor handling of the aircrew after the mission. I still don't get why CSAR assets are back under ACC. Seems to me they are better suited to be under AFSOC. Nice that their medals were downgraded...unbelievable... Edited October 31, 2009 by APG85 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
US Herk Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 I still don't get why CASAR assets are back under ACC. Seems to me they are better suited to be under AFSOC. . One word: Money & control OK, two words... :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC10FE Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 Besides the unbeleivable handling, or mishandling, of this entire fiasco, it has brought up some questions in my mind. First, in MSgt Widener's commendation to accompany his "medal," his job is described as an "HC-130P Airborne Mission System Specialist." Is that now the official job description of a flight engineer? Only one of the two loadmasters mentioned in the article was awarded the acheivement medal. Why? The female load, SRA Kimberly Vanhaaten, probably faced a more terrifying outcome, along with the female FCC, than the rest of the hostages After a while, I got tired of reading the commendations, but one trend caught my eye -- most of those "medals" awarded were sometimes the 5th or 6th oak leaf cluster. I didn't have that many oak leaf clusters on my good conduct medal after 23 years of service! I flew into El-Fashir many times with St. Lucia Airways back in late 1985, flying famine releif missions for Oxfam and Caritas. They were always daylight operations, so I would assume the airfield lighting was either nonexistant or, like most airfields in the third world, o/s (out of service). After that harrowing experience, the crew still flew out of there a little after 8:00 PM, landed and refuelled at Khartoum and still flew back to their home station. I can just imagine the conversations in the cockpit! OK, enough of my rants -- although there's a lot more I could get off my chest about this whole screw-up. Acknowledgement of the maintenance troops and the ANG security? Nada. Acheivement medal, my ass!!! If it had been me, I would've tossed it in the trash can on my way out of the awards ceremony. Don R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Ro Posted October 31, 2009 Share Posted October 31, 2009 And for the maintainers...nothing. I know the maintainers that were on that mission and they received nothing. All three maintainers (including the one who is now deceased) are getting medals. I know this for a fact. But I have not even received mine yet. Gen North signed their medals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taytay Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Don, Maybe an Airborne Missions Systems Specialist is what they are calling Radio Operators these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
So Ro Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 Don, Maybe an Airborne Missions Systems Specialist is what they are calling Radio Operators these days? That would check... the crew position with the endlessly changing job title. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc130pfe Posted November 1, 2009 Share Posted November 1, 2009 That would check... the crew position with the endlessly changing job title. They even changed it from RO to AMSS in our checklists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hc130radio Posted June 28, 2010 Share Posted June 28, 2010 We changed from RO to AMSS when the Air Force merged the 1A4X1 (AMSS - think airborne radar and computer techs from AWACS/JSTARS) into the 1A3X1 (Airborne Comm and Electronics Specialists) career field a few years back. I know Maj Woosley from when he was a Capt and I was just a snotty SrA/SSgt at Moody. Smart guy, cool head. I've heard of PJ Widner before. Sounds like the unit was from the 79th RQS out at DM. As a rescue guy, I can't believe I hadn't heard this story, but I was doin the AETC thing at Kirtland back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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