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Mike Brasfield

Slip Sticks

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Anybody out there remember "Slip Sticks"? During a recent air show I took a walk acound a "J" model. I asked the young Loadmaster if they were still in use. "No, but I've heard of them", he replied.

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Heard of'em, seen one, never used it though. Nowadays it's calculators, PDA's, and if you're on J's, their mission computers.

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Loads had the slip stick, engineers had a told data wheel. I still have mine for the H model but we never used them as they were not accurate like the E model wheels.

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One of these? This little doggy followed me home one year:rolleyes:

slipstick.jpg

Kinda like a lost art, just like shooting cell or the FE's Whiz Wheel.

Sometime progress isn't always good or necessary, lots of lost knowledge and skills out there now:mad:

Dan

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We never used them "in country" but everywhere else we had to file a report called ???? One of our crew's should have used it though. Took off too heavy out of a front line fire fight and plowed into a CAT crossing the end of the runway. I took a movie (still have it) of the Herky Bird making a no wheels lading at Cam Ranh. Troops and crew made it out OK but the aircraft was a total loss.

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Even when I didn't fill out a form F (though, even incountry we were supposed to leave a filled out form F "behind" somewhere, even if only under a rock...) I always slipped the load, unless pax or medi evac or bladder bird. Of course floor loading pax onto pallets, you'd herd them all into the plane and not let them sit down till you closed the ramp and door & you could get a heck of a lot more than 92 pax (& animals...) on board, but you were stuck with where they ended up on the floor! With 25-35K of pallets or rolling stock, because of the low fuel fuel load, I always worried about being too nose heavy, which would only become more nose heavy as you burned off fuel...

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Loading a bunch, herd?, of Army guys one day and the old Sarg. says " Move forward until the man in front of you smiles". I used that line for years.

I used the slip stick all the time. I always laughed at my form F's as they were unreadable do to me sweating all over it.

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Even when I didn't fill out a form F (though, even incountry we were supposed to leave a filled out form F "behind" somewhere, even if only under a rock...) I always slipped the load, unless pax or medi evac or bladder bird. Of course floor loading pax onto pallets, you'd herd them all into the plane and not let them sit down till you closed the ramp and door & you could get a heck of a lot more than 92 pax (& animals...) on board, but you were stuck with where they ended up on the floor! With 25-35K of pallets or rolling stock, because of the low fuel fuel load, I always worried about being too nose heavy, which would only become more nose heavy as you burned off fuel...

We always had a slip stick, even in country, I didn't always file a Form F but when I did it was under a rock or somewhere on the external power unit. I often checked how high the crew door was off the ground before and after loading just as a double check - one of my engineers taught me that trick.

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"Form F". That was it. I really can't remember filling out a Form F but I'm sure I did. I know I computed the W&B but not sure if the form found it's way to anyone. To this day I can still load a truck by standing back and looking at the cargo and the space and make it come out pretty good. However, no MAC on a truck.

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Was there a post some years back about flight engineer's going back to the school house, or receiving additional in-house training on these stick's? Circa late 60's/70's.....

Kurt

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I still find Form F's in my old military gear from loads giving them to me and just getting stuffed in a pocket or backpack.

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Anybody out there remember "Slip Sticks"? During a recent air show I took a walk acound a "J" model. I asked the young Loadmaster if they were still in use. "No, but I've heard of them", he replied.

Marines were trained to use them up until 2006. Don't need them with the J. We still have them on the planes in Pax. They are nice conversation pieces.

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Wasn't it a requirement for FE's to fill out a form "F" on our annual Check Rides? Seems like they taught it when I went through Sewart in 1970, but I'm not sure. Could have been a Sq. Policy, but I remember having to know how to fill them out.

Glenn

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My AC (no names, Skip Daven....) would asked that I fill out a Form F before the each first flight in country every day. It would give us info. on how to load the rest of the day.

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I only filed, or left, a form F at some of the major airfields in SEA. However I almost always slipped the load before engine start. And I checked the height of the crew entrance door most times. When I went from the C-130B to the C-133B I was surprised to learn every form F was figured by station and LOOOOOOOOONG math. Except for certain missions the C-133B was a one loadmaster aircraft.

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I always taught the FEs going through the school house how to use the slip stick. I thought it was a good bit of info to know. If a load looked "strange" the FE could double-check it.

There were times when the load was busy loading that I did the Form F and handed it to the LM once it was done and he double-checked it and gave it to the AC to sign. This was especially so when hauling the army in Alaska.

The FE's did the canned Form F's in the 6594th. I think we re-did them every quarter. All the missions were pretty much the same.

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My AC (no names, Skip Daven....) would asked that I fill out a Form F before the each first flight in country every day. It would give us info. on how to load the rest of the day.

yea but if you would have stopped carrying that damn pig around with you all the time we would have had it much better :)

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Wasn't it a requirement for FE's to fill out a form "F" on our annual Check Rides? Seems like they taught it when I went through Sewart in 1970, but I'm not sure. Could have been a Sq. Policy, but I remember having to know how to fill them out.

Glenn

IIRC we had to learn to fill them out at Altus. I remember a weather bird FE coming over to our plane at Lajes and asking for help filling out a form F. He didn't have a load master to do it. Our loads fixed him up.

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As a co-pilot in 1965 at CCK, I was an expert on the slip stick. SSgt Michael Rice was our crew's loadmaster and he supervised the loading and while doing that, he gave me weights

(sometimes estimated) and locations and I did the Form F although he signed it. During the CCK 13 months, we always filled out the Form F and had a copy on the airplane and somewhere at the departure base.

The Flight MECANIC and navigator helped push cargo when in the "sticks". Our Flight Mechanic had 3 years as a crew chief, had a tool box and could fix almost anything. We got the performance data from tab data and didn't waste time knick picking in the dash one.

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I wish you loads would quit giving me those damn form F's. After wearing a pair of pants for a couple days and launching 10 + lines I would have a big ole pocket of 'em.

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On the gunships in Thialand we had canned form F for the different loads, redone every 90 days. Was my additional duty. I worked them up and stan eval double checked them.

Mike

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Hey Ya'll!

" Weight and Balance Clearance Form-F - Transport", "DD Form 365-4" on the front of the form, on the backside it was:

"Weight And Balance Clearance Form F - Tactical" with "DD Form 365-4 Reverse" Along with the line about the Transport/tactical it had the year of the form and the standard line: "previous editions are obsolete"

I do have a slip stick that looks like the one Ole' General Ripper (sorry Dan! couldn't resist!) but where his is marked for his aircraft mine lists C-130E. It also doesn't have the "clear" sliding component on it (not sure the tech name for it) probably a victim of sitting in the LM Sup's desk for years.

Fleagle

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When I took my Aircraft Commander upgrade flight at CCK in 1970 I had to demonstrate my knowledge of both the "stick" and the Form F - quite a lesson in humility and appreciation for what the FE and Load did.

Had to do it again as part of my in-country check-flight. Probably never did either again.

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