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Buddy start


cheema
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In 1971 I was with a crew that did a buddy start in Na Trang. I was a Crew Chief and the A/C requested that I sit on the rear ramp on head set and let him know when the aircraft behind us had rotation. We threw up so much dust and trash in the air that I couldn't even see the aircraft. Regardless of the dirt, the buddy start worked out fine.

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people who have done a buddy start plus year mentioning place is optional.

80s, Korea, Philippines; get the airplane going in time to meet ORI mission closure; training ex-141 FEs who hadn't gotten complete phase II tng or needed to see a buddy start for some reason. Nothing unsafe about a buddy start if you do all the steps in the right sequence and you have a clean runup area. I think FODs the biggest worry. "Put your nose under the tail"? No!

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I was in charge of an ALCE deployed to Utapao in 1982 when we tried to buddy start a C-130 with a Navy P-3. Because of the "Stinger" on the P-3, the Herk could not get sufficiently close to bring the engine rpm up enough to get a start. The appropriate authority would not authorize a windmill taxi start, so they flew another in with parts to fix the problem. I've always wondered why the disapproval of the windmill start at Utapao. Your would be hard pressed to find a larger or longer runway.

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Did you guys kept the text book distance i.e; 10 feet, I suppose. Cause I herd that you actually have to put your nose under the tail of your buddy to get a successful start.

I dont think we had to get any closer than 10 feet but I do remember that we usually had to change the offset to get it to work right, but its been quite a while so I cant guarantee which way the offset was altered for the "startee"

I've always wondered why the disapproval of the windmill start at Utapao. Your would be hard pressed to find a larger or longer runway.

Hell, I've had the squadron commander at the 37th run us right off the airfield at Lar airstation in W. Germany (think it was a Canadian base) doing his windmill taxi starts for his instructor check or upgrade, cant remember which.That runway had pleanty of space, unfortunately the commander had pleanty of space between his ears as well; at least he got the good ol RIF later on LOL.

Its really shameful that MAC er AMC cut out the requirement for windmill taxi starts, buddy starts except in the sim. Buddy starts are about as safe as can be if you follow the checklist; now a windmill taxi start on an outboard (or even an inboard sometimes) will sort out the pilots from the morons pretty damn quick.

Regardless that's one procedure you really really want to have a pilot experienced with REAL and successful windmill starts (not a lame simulation which isn't very realistic). AFSOC was still doing them on the aircraft when I retired, dont know if they still do or not.

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We landed at Pleiku very late on New Years Eve 65. Had 5 pallets of WP on board so they put us on the taxiway out near the runway to wait for a fork lift. Soon trip flares started going off and we could see figures running around. The front end got 1&2 started and we started to taxi. # 3 came on line as we took the runway and #4 was online before we broke ground and went back to TSN. Found out the perimiter security got chewed out for celebrating New Years.

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When I was an IP in the Instructor School (mid-90s), we did windmills all the time. We actually had the upgrading IP do them from the right seat. They're fairly safe if you know what you're doing and everyone understands their duties. The hardest part when doing it from the right seat is knowing when you can safely let the left seater come off nose wheel steering. I had a couple of the upgrade IPs have me come off the nose wheel way too early. The look on their face was priceless when they figured out they did not have control of the aircraft. Needless to say, I had to take over real quick when that happened.

-Jim

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We did a buddy start at a really small field with a short runway somewhere up north of Danang in late 71 or 72. The number 2 starter went out and I rembered an instructor at Little Rock explaning how a buddy start worked. I was the only one on the plane who had even heard of doing that to get an engine running. I asked the AC to get on the radio and see if there was a C-130 in the area that could come give us a blow start, we had a plane on the ground within 20 minutes. They backed up to us with our #2 engine between their #1 and #2, it worked great and we were out of there before dark.

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Once when we were trying to leave CRB to go back home to CCK, we were trying to leave without a starter. It seemed like we were there for hours trying to get started. I don't think anybody knew how to do a buddy start then either as we tried. Finally, after several attempts at windmill taxi starts we finally made it and went home!!

I remember doing that later several times, with much better success!!

Ken

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  • 2 weeks later...

Cheema, I did buddy starts and windmill taxi starts routinely in Vietnam. FOD was not a problem.

As for spacing between aircraft, the recommended separation will eventually do the job, assuming you've got time for multiple attempts. On the other hand, if the start has to work the first time, get closer. For places, dates, and details see:

http://vietnamairlift.com/phnompenh.html

http://vietnamairlift.com/mechanical.html

http://vietnamairlift.com/windmilltaxi.html

Alan

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