larry myers

IAW the CAUTION, the acft. may not be moved, means no more no less. If there were other restrictions, such as other maintenance, going on top of the acft. the caution would so state. People have a tendency to read more into the TO than is there. As I used to say, "When all else fails, read the TO".

Thanks Rex. The reason I asked was I was the crew chief on 838 from the summer of 1966 to late 1968. We were part of the 36th TAS at Langley. 838 was one of the first acft. recieved as the wing begain acquiring acft. Not for sure but believe we recieved 838 from the MAC wing at McGuire. Bob will know for sure. 838 was, for me, a good bird, flying when called upon. She and I traveled many different places in North and South America, Europe, North Africa, Russia and Southwest Asia. I think the highlight was evacuating refugees from Amman, Jordan after the 67 Israel/ Arab war. Don't remember the count, but well over 100. People on the ramp door. As everyone boarded over the ramp the LM and I made sure they left thier only belongings on the taxiway behind the aircraft. Made for quite a large pile. We flew them to Tehran and we flew on to Athens were we sat for a week while the big guys figured out what to do with us. Eventually we returned to Mildenhall and then on to Langley. I crewed four different aircraft over a period of 14 years. To the best of my knowledge all of them, except 838, made it to AMARC. Makes me a little sad to learn one of them failed and killed a crew.

Bob, It's probably all automatic so you guys can't screw it up. In addition, just think, your also in charge of flt. deck air temp.

I sure like those late model oversize urinals Metalbasher posted. Makes it much easier to hit the target for us guys with short stacks and low manifold pressure. BTW, where is the wench?

Bob, my only contact with 123s was 1969 in RVN. My recollection was Ranch Hand acft. were all Ks at that time. I believe there was also a 123 trash hauling outfit in country at that time. Can't say for sure but seem to recall they were Ks too. I say that because we had an incident wherein one of my outstanding TA troops fueled a 123K with jet fuel while the acft. was parked on the transit ramp (RH always parked on the small ramp adjacent our defoliant tanks). At lift off the crew realized there was a problem, did a 180 and landed on the departure end. That was sure thier lucky day and mine too. I expected the AC would want to rip my head off but he was suprising understanding, even though we almost killed him. Instead, the troop that pumped the JP4 get his head ripped off.:mad:

In 1969 I was at Phu Cat as the NCOIC of Transit Alert/Crash Recovery. Several times a month several Ranch Hand 123s would stage from Phu Cat spraying defoliant. TAs part in this operation was to pump defoliant from our storage tanks into the acft. tanks mounted in the cargo comp. The acft. mounted equipment was local manufacture and leaked everwhere. The cargo compartment floor was always awash in defoliant. We recieved no training concerning how to handle or how hazardous this stuff was. We considered it just another job that Transit Alert did. What we did get was a pair of rubber gloves. We had three tanks, each a different color. Probably 90% of what we pumped was from the orange tank. I never saw anyone refilling those tanks. Thinking about it at this point, that seems very strange as the tanks could be seen from the TA office. Further, I was on the ramp most every day from one end to the other. In all my career never saw more a clapped out acft. than those C-123K Ranch Hand. After parking, the crew would egress the acft. and begin counting bullet holes. Not unusual to count between 200 and 300 hundred. Don't know what kept the bird in one piece. When flying the crew didn't wear their flack vests they sat on them. One one occasion, prior to launch, while watching the FM climbing the ladder to check the No. 1 jet intake I became worried he was about to fall off the rickety ladder. I grabbed ahold to study him. When he was back on the ground it was not so much the ladder but his b/a content. Having some knowledge of the type of sorties they flew I sure as hell was not critical of his condition. I was 51 when I retired and by 55 had type II diabetes and heart blockage. Consider myself lucky as both are in good control. What really burns me up it the AF knew what hazards were involved but concealed it. Hate to think what kind of shape the civilians on the recieving end are in.

My oh my, the accomadations certainly have improved.

One of the reasons I riveted those two 245 bulkhead mounted urinals closed. Didn't think it was too much trouble to walk to the ramp to pee. So, hopefully on my aircraft, instead of corroded bulkhead caps Metalbasher was replacing the sloping longeron. Which I'm sure he's very good at also. On the AMST IOT&E we, maintenance, insisted the airframe and latrine be separated by noncorrosive material. I've been told the C-17 latrine is contained within a fibreglass lined compartment.

Herkfixer, Can you tell me what the tailnumber of the accident acft. was? Regards, Myers

Anyone here know Darrell? This coming Friday at the Ohio Statehouse Darrell will be inducted into the Ohio Military Hall of Fame for Valor. Only 17 troops are being so honored. In May 1968 Darrell was a crewmember on a herc. that flew into Kham Duc, RVN under fire and evacuated more than 120 Vietnamese civilians and allied forces before the city was overrun by the VC. For this heroic act he was awarded the DFC. Darrell lives in Lebanon, OH. The Ohio Military Hall of Fame for Valor came into being in 2000 and has annually inducted new members since that time. It has a website at www.ohioheroes.org and a public display in Mottts Military Museum in Groveport, near Columbus, OH. For Darrell a well deserved and long overdue award.

An article in this weeks Dayton Daily News stated the AF has decided to retain 24 C-130s that were slated for removal from service to satisfy upcoming budget constraints. This winning effort was a result of state governors lobbying efforts. My observation is that when all is said and done the final numbers will little resemble the orginial purposal.

The C-130 sampling interval was at the end of each flying day.

Although don't remember specifics but am sure we changed numerous engines at CCK for oil sample hits. Mostly though the problem was low torque which was easily explained when upon looking down the intake and discovering the compressor blades were about the size of toothpicks. Forgot to mention in my post above the one incident, that I'm aware of, in which the oil sample program caused loss of an F-100 at Phu Cat. Pilot punched out ok and was picked up by Dust Off. The engine failed as a result of the oil sample tube being dropped into the oil tank. It reverted and plugged up the tank outlet resulting in loss of all oil pressure. Scratch one F-100D.

Ken, I remember this program well. It begain about 1963 or so. I remember because I helped set it up in my sqd. At the time, no one, including my self placed, any credence in it. Just another bs program dreamed up by some desk bound idiot. It was based on wear levels of the different metals internal to the engine, such as a main bearing, or any oil wetted component. This wear was expressed in parts per million (ppm). Each metal had a max. limit. Once the limit was reached corrective action was required. Depending on what metal was high could guide you to the failing component. And not every hit resulted in an engine change. Sometimes it would be an oil pump or another component replaceable at the O level. Other times the procedure would be to simply change the oil and watch for an uptrend. Over a number of years, my experience made me a believer. More than once, engine teardown as a result of an oil anaylsis hit confirmed an iminent component failure. That said, I grumbled like everyone else when changing an engine that seemed to us to be operating perfectly just because those wimps in the oil lab said it had high iron or some other metal ppm out of limits. Don't know if the procedure has changed but the F-16 required a sample after every sortie and the acft. could not be flown on a subsequent sortie until the results of that sample were found to be okay. OBTW, if you wanted to have a one on one with the line chief, take your samples from a can of oil. Today, this same process is used in over the road semi trucks. If there is a piston ring or fuel injector failing you will see combustion products or fuel in the engine oil. Some folks who are anal about thier Corvette or Viper also sample.

Sounds like a 107 assist is in order.

Casey, This is not the only web site I hang out on, but, it is by far the best one. Well done!!!

In the early 80s an all female crew from McGuire flew a 141 trans Altantic to RAF Mildenhall. It was a big deal then with lots of media coverage in both the US and UK media. Don't remember if there were female fighter pilots then. Anyone remember when the AF gained its first female fighter pilot? I know there were none in the 48th TFW, at least up to 1984. Recall a female pilot graduating number one in her UPT class and choosing F-15s. If I remember correctly, later this same pilot, while deployed to SA got in big trouble when she raised holy hell about not being able to drive. The AF rewarded her by railroading her out. The ladies are indeed young, but in my case not so much that they are so young but that I'm sooo old.:)

Very cool. What a way to come home. Anyone know what the landing fee is at LGA? What ever the problem, must have been serious, as there are less congested alternates, e.g., McGuire, Stewart. However, an RON in Manhattan gotta be fine.

HercMX, I think something is missing.

Am sure you'll find help here, but not without more detail. Reminds me of the nav., who in debriefing, writes the APN 59 up as, "inop", and then is pissed off the next day when he finds it still not working.

Is the WV Guard flying C-5As or Bs? If its As, they'll soon be history.

Dallas, If Jerry Pegg was your roommate I'm sure between the two of you many brain cells were killed. I met Jerry at Langley and later at CCK. We talk couple of times a month. Good guy.

P.S. Nav lights blink 85 times a minute, 40 each for the B models.... :-D

If I'm the professor your getting an A+, no question. Well done!!! If you get anything less than an A let us know and we'll dispatch Dan Wilson to Wisconsin to kneecap your prof. This would include payback for using the student deferment. lmao!!!!

Not an ARN 147 issue but at least a NavAid question. Was in the gallery looking at several C-130s at AMARC that had the ARN-14 antennas removed and wondering why. After reading this thread an guessing the AF stopped buying ARN-14 spares in anticipation of the ARN127 and later the 147 modification. And that some acft., prior to upgrade, experienced antenna faiure. With no spares available the only resourse would have been AMARC. Is this a good guess or am I in left field? I know this antenna is a sob to replace because I helped a navaid tech. replace one. Believe the fasteners were installed when the acft. was new. Recall while in RVN we had a Da Nang F-102 land at Phu Cat with a cracked windscreen. When we recieved the replacement it was from an AMARC 102.