Bank angle

[tinyclark]

Anyone know the max bank angle for the C130?? Is 65 over the limit. I don't know where the number would be written.

The old B-1 states "In executing turns under combat conditions, remember that 60 degrees is the maximum bank angle."

Edited October 12, 2010 by tinyclark

[SEFEGeorge]

The last I heard was 60 degrees was max, but have heard of times that this was exceeded in VN under combat conditions..

[dinahmoehumm]

60 clean

45 dirty

Have crews exceeded that? You bet. Exceeded it myself during an FCF. Not fun, or comfortable.

[tinyclark]

This was done on a final turn on approach though, so he was already low. He should have gone around and tried again.

[Spectre623]

Was at the Dobbins air show this past weekend and saw the NAVY's Fat Albert pull a full 90 degree bank...they must not be aware of the limits. Very impressive. I flew as a scanner at Sewart back in the 60's so am pretty familer with HIGH bank angles... especially near Bush Field, GA, thanks to a great pilot named Maj. Lennart Bjerken. You still out there Len? Bill

[US Herk]

Published max bank angle limits are 60* clean and 45* w/flaps down. It doesn't say this, but this is based on maximum G attained during a level turn.

Consequently, the bank angle limits are basically G limits. If you don't attempt to maintain level flight with increasing back pressure, you can bank up to 90* and not hurt the plane at all...in fact, you could roll the plane and not hurt it - of course, you'll need a bit of altitude to get away with this... (helps to do the rudder swap as you go through inverted based on simulator handling - hahaha!)

[Dan Wilson]

Well, once upon a time I was flying with a ex F-16 pilot (he considered the herk "the penalty box") and the best I could figure is we did about 110 degrees of bank at 5K.

Sure as hell woke me up!!!

[jbob]

US Herk is correct in what he says except it's not 45 w/Flaps down...it's any flap extension. Flaps down is considered 100%. ;-) Mostly based on G loading. I've been past 90 degrees a couple of times myself just not with the "G's"

[US Herk]

US Herk is correct in what he says except it's not 45 w/Flaps down...it's any flap extension. Flaps down is considered 100%. ;-) Mostly based on G loading. I've been past 90 degrees a couple of times myself just not with the "G's"

You are correct - any flap - I did not mean to imply flaps 100 and should have more correctly said "any flap".

For the record, I've been over 100*, but not in a USAF Herk. ;)

[tinyclark]

I know I've been over 60 with the Talons doing intercepts, don't know by how much though.

I asked the question because the of the ambiguous narrative in the -6

WHEN AIRCRAFT IS MANEUVERED OUTSIDE THE NORMAL FLIGHT ENVELOPE AS

INDICATED BY AN AFTO FORM 781A ENTRY. (SEE SYSTEM 77000 FOR ADDITIONAL

REQUIREMENTS)

A. VISUALLY INSPECT THE OUTER WING BOX BEAM BY ENTERING NO. 1 AND NO. 4 TANKS.

INSPECT OUTER WING BOX BEAMS FROM OWS 214 THRU 562 FOR BENT OR BUCKLED

RIBS (780), SHEARED “H" CLIPS AND SHEARED FASTENERS.

B. FOR PROPELLERS INVOLVED IN THESE INCIDENTS, THE AFTO FORM 95 HISTORICAL

RECORD SHOULD BE ANNOTATED TO INCLUDE AIRSPEED, OPERATING WEIGHT, FUEL

DISTRIBUTION, ALTITUDE CHANGE, BANK ANGLES, PROPELLER TORQUES, AND AMOUNT

OF “G" FORCES APPLIED.

[agarrett]

Published max bank angle limits are 60* clean and 45* w/flaps down. It doesn't say this, but this is based on maximum G attained during a level turn.

Consequently, the bank angle limits are basically G limits. If you don't attempt to maintain level flight with increasing back pressure, you can bank up to 90* and not hurt the plane at all...in fact, you could roll the plane and not hurt it - of course, you'll need a bit of altitude to get away with this... (helps to do the rudder swap as you go through inverted based on simulator handling - hahaha!)

There is an old handout from Lockheed that backs this up. The one that also talks about roll reversal being the worst thing you can do to a Herk wing. I have it around here somewhere, cant think of the title.

The boys at St. Joe also have a wealth of info on this subject.

Tiny, "any landing can be saved," check sec5 of that -1, as stated above the numbers are 60 clean and 45 with flaps and have been that way since I've been flying.

A high bank angle in the situation you describe is one of the steps on the crash checklist.

[jmitch]

I was with a Major Nixion over Germany after a troop drop he put it 90 degrees to come in low over the drop zone, I was hanging on the static line and the door handel hanging straight in to the air plane he called it a shandel . scared the hell out of me. of course that was back in day and we didnt do things like that

[Hedjhopper]

Bill he's a member of our Chapter! Eaker Chapter DFC Society!

Edited October 22, 2010 by Hedjhopper
typo

[tinyclark]

A high bank angle in the situation you describe is one of the steps on the crash checklist.

That's funny right there, I don't care who y'are.

[bobdaley]

Wombat asked me to post these. bank anngle of 3215 flying into Mena AR

[loadsmith]

Here's a link to a video from the Paris Air Show in 2009. Lockheed came to LR and borrowed 46311 and as you will see in the video they put the airplane well past 60 degrees a few times. Awesome video but a pain in the a$$ for our MX folks who had to do the inspections upon the aircraft's return.

[Spectre623]

Thanks Hedgehopper, tell Len his scanner from 65-66 said hello. Good to hear he is still kicking. Bill

[steve haigler]

Tiny,

TO 1C-130H-1 Chap.6 Flight Characteristics P.6-3 para:MANEUVERING FLIGHT states bank no greater than 60. I guess anything greater is considered areobatic which is prohibited. Gunships you guys were aerobatic to get the job done.

Steve

[tinyclark]

We ended up getting approval from the engineering staff not to do the inspections, since the aircraft didn't experience anything over 1.8Gs.

[US Herk]

We ended up getting approval from the engineering staff not to do the inspections, since the aircraft didn't experience anything over 1.8Gs.

The G issue is always confusing. I can roll the plane and if I never demand anything from it, can keep it basically at 1G all day long - nothing will ever get hurt (unless I do it wrong!) It's not the bank angle...

The other G issue is during landing. The G-meter is completely useless - completely - for landing forces. So guys writing up "hard" landings on the basis of G-meter readings are just causing maintenance unnecessary work - and a lot of it.

Al, I have that handout - I think it's C-130 Low-Speed Flying Characteristics or something like that...I use it. At one point I scanned it in, but this was old days with scanners that didn't compress pics very well, so it was huge. I need to find my original and re-scan it - it's got a lot of great info in it.

[SamMcGowan]

I've been in a Split-S in an A-model over North Vietnam. Bob Bartunek - BBartsey@aol.com - can tell the whole story. For anyone who doesn't know what a Split-S is, the airplane is rolled upside down then pulled through in a half-loop.

[Dan Wilson]

Gunships you guys were aerobatic to get the job done.

Try Modified Contour refueling in the Hindu Cush at er uh well, 300 feet AGL, yeah that's it, 300 feet AGL