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tinwhistle
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Today I was assaulted and insulted. Our President and Commander in Chief has ordered the Flag of the United States of America to be flown at half mast in honor of a foreign entity, Nelson Mandella. I have no beef with Mandella, it's my understanding that he was a fine leader. He was, however, not a citizen of the United States of America. Never was. We have young men and women serving under the Stars and Stripes in far away lands, being horribly wounded and killed every day, and this administration all but ignores them. Combat Veterans from wars long ago wait years for the recognition they deserve. Does Washington care? Yet some stranger to most Americans, a foreigner, is given the great honor of having the Flag of the United States flown at half mast.

I am personally insulted....

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It's often said if you don't respect the president at least respect the office. I'm past that.There is no way the office can be respected when some one like him is elected and re- elected.

There is no damn way the US flag should be lowered to half staff for him

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I think many people will have an issue because of the current president, an example being the Sheriff in SC who is making the news for not wanting to comply. President Bush ordered the Nation's Flags flown at half staff in 2005 when Pope John Paul II passed away, how many people had a issue with his decision back then?

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I think many people will have an issue because of the current president, an example being the Sheriff in SC who is making the news for not wanting to comply. President Bush ordered the Nation's Flags flown at half staff in 2005 when Pope John Paul II passed away, how many people had a issue with his decision back then?

I do not recall the Bush/Pope situation, however, loadsmith you just made my point. Bush vs Obama. President Bush loved this Country. Bush held the United States military in the highest regard; in fact served. But my issue is the lowering the Flag for a foreigner. As I said, I do not recall the Bush/Pope incident, but I would have been (and am) just as insulted then as now. There is no reason why our National Flag should be lowered for any foreign entity!

The Eagle soars above The United States of America!! Not South Africa, nor the Vatican.........

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What do you expect from this guy???? This was wrong, wrong. wrong.....Mandela may have done a lot for his country, but NOTHING for ours....especially compared to what most on this site has contributed. My daughter was working at a tourist site in Pennsylvania when Princess Diana was killed. Her boss told her to lower the American flag at the site to half mast in honor of her.She said, " If you want it lowered do it yourself, because I am not going to lower that flag that both my grandfathers and my Dad served under for some foreign national." her boss just looked at her and walked away. But ya know what, the flag was not lowered. That's my kid!!!!!!!!!!

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What do you expect from this guy???? This was wrong, wrong. wrong.....Mandela may have done a lot for his country, but NOTHING for ours....especially compared to what most on this site has contributed. My daughter was working at a tourist site in Pennsylvania when Princess Diana was killed. Her boss told her to lower the American flag at the site to half mast in honor of her.She said, " If you want it lowered do it yourself, because I am not going to lower that flag that both my grandfathers and my Dad served under for some foreign national." her boss just looked at her and walked away. But ya know what, the flag was not lowered. That's my kid!!!!!!!!!!

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I agree fully with the not lowering of the flag. Mandela was not a US citizen: member of our armed forces: or head of State. My flag stays firm at full mast and it in no way is it meant to dis-respect the man. I will avoid the politics.

And BTW, I didn't lower it for Whitney Houston either... THAT was the ultimate insult to me....

Stand tall

Frank C.

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I do not recall the Bush/Pope situation, however, loadsmith you just made my point. Bush vs Obama. President Bush loved this Country. Bush held the United States military in the highest regard; in fact served. But my issue is the lowering the Flag for a foreigner. As I said, I do not recall the Bush/Pope incident, but I would have been (and am) just as insulted then as now. There is no reason why our National Flag should be lowered for any foreign entity!

The Eagle soars above The United States of America!! Not South Africa, nor the Vatican.........

I regards to Bush serving, I wouldn't exactly call his service as "really serving." Yes he's a veteran, but just not sure about his and his dad's "doings." Don't know why he didn't get assigned to RVN, but maybe it was because of Bush, Sr. I don't particularly like or dislike the guy but:

In May 1968, Bush was commissioned into the Texas Air National Guard. After two years of active-duty service while training, he was assigned to Houston, flying Convair F-102s with the 147th Reconnaissance Wing out of Ellington Field Joint Reserve Base. Critics, including former Democratic National Committee Chairman Terry McAuliffe, have alleged that Bush was favorably treated due to his father's political standing as a member of the House of Representatives, citing his selection as a pilot despite his low pilot aptitude test scores and his irregular attendance. In June 2005, the United States Department of Defense released all the records of Bush's Texas Air National Guard service, which remain in its official archives.

In late 1972 and early 1973, he drilled with the 187th Fighter Wing of the Alabama Air National Guard, having moved to Montgomery, Alabama to work on the unsuccessful U.S. Senate campaign of Republican Winton M. Blount. In 1972, Bush was suspended from flying for failure to take a scheduled physical exam. He was honorably discharged from the Air Force Reserve on November 21, 1974.

Taken from Wikipedia. But like I said, he is a veteran.

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Dubbya was assigned to "B" company, he would BE back here when the rest of us left, and he would BE here when we got back. But at least he was in uniform at sometime in his life, not like this thing we have in the White House now.

So true giz, but Bush was in during the draft era. If he hadn't enlisted in USAF he could very well have been drafted into the army and actually had to do something, go somewhere. Not sure that even daddy could have gotten him out of that without any political repercussions.

Daddy probably told him he needed some military "background" for future political motives.

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Yep, Bush the vet, wasn't all that sharp as he was "only",qualified in the T-33, T-37, T-38 and F-102. But he is still a vet and was honorably discharged and he didn't throw his ribbons over the white house fence like some clowns in Washington did. Bill

Edited by Spectre623
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I just tried to make the point that by the time Obama graduated high school it was after VN and before the Gulf. When he graduated HS and then collage, there was no Draft. Looks like he probably had a political future in mind.

Yes Bush, Jr is a vet. And a lot of vets never went to VN or elsewhere. But I think we need to consider that Jr had a political future in mind and Sr probably had a hand in planning the steps Jr needed to take, which included military service.

I think we all realize that it's getting to the point where there are fewer and fewer politicians that will not have any military service.

Some seem to forget that Romney is not a vet, or not one that I know of. Looks like after HS he spent 2.5 years as a missionary, in France. So if he had beat Obama we'd still have a president without military service.

I'm not a complete Obama fan, but let's face it, his presidency is covering some history that has some of the most turmoil in the past few decades. Some seem to forget that Bush 1 and 2 got us involved in the Middle East. Obama just took over and got it all handed to him wrapped in a blood soaked ribbon.

Many are complaining about Obama and what he's done and trying to do, but I really haven't seen anyone with any better ideas on things. Seems to me that many are for no healthcare, let's just leave things as they are, and let the un-insured fend for themselves. Ok for us vets, we've got the VA, but what about any one else that's not a vet, no healthcare insurance? I can see both sides of the coin in this, but as a nation we take care of our people, young and old alike. I do draw the line at illegals. Send their asses back to their home countries.

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I just feel that every American male has the duty and the responsibility to serve in uniform in some capacity. You should not need a draft to motivate you, you should not need a 9/11 to make you want to join, you should not be motivated just by a chance at some benefits. It should simply be the fact that our nation needs to be defended. I don't care if you were a grunt in the mud in Nam, flew the stuff we did in the 130, or served two years as a mess cook in Ft. Leonard Wood. You SERVED, and each and every job in the military does something to keep the bad guys thinking. Many guys in the Nam era served in Germany and Turkey, and the Med. Everyone did something to keep the Commies at bay. The only thing ANY vet should not do is play their service for personal advancement, A la John Kerry, and they should have fulfilled what ever obligations they had, instead of just finding it interfered with their plans, like Bush did. You hear all the crap about how unfair the draft was and so on, well let me tell you this.........It was a forgone conclusion that at sometime I was going to do military serve, but out of all my cousins of about my age and physical condition, and all the guys in my high school class, 8 out of 38 entered the service, 4 served in Nam....The rest just did not HAVE to go, and just felt no motivation to do so. Most were perfectly able to pass the physicals and so on, but just didn't seem to think our country was worth serving, but they enjoyed the benefits of being an American..... Just my opinion.............. I COULD be wrong!!!!!!!!!!

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Since Bush 2 and I graduated from High School in the same year, 1964. I remember a lot about the time. Viet Nam had not even become common knowledge. Not knowing anything about how the military worked I signed up for ROTC and the Service Academy's to get to go to pilot training. I signed up for the AF because they had, I thought, mostly jets and the Army and Coast Guard had Helos and the Navy rowed around on boats without babes or swimming pools. Much to my surprise, when I finally got to pilot training there were a lot of guys there who had joined the Guard some in college, some even in high school.

On of my classmates, Fred Bradley, was in the Houston Guard with Bush 2, and he really thought he was a good guy.

Whatever way it worked out, influence or not, he joined the Guard and served honorably. Just because he was smart enough to do it through the Guard, isn't a discredit. I agree with Gizzard, everyone should serve their country for a few years and after 15 years in the Guard and Reserve, I think it is a very honorable way to serve. If I had known about going to pilot training through the Guard, I would have tried for it in a heartbeat.

Bob

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Spent my first 12 years on active duty and my last 29 in the guard and reserves. As a C-141 FE on active duty I flew with reserve flight crew and they were trained to the same degree I was. Only way I knew they were reserve was their unit patch. I will tell you now the AF guard and reserves are top notch. After active duty,most of the C-130 guys I worked with had done their 4 on active duty and were in the guard or reserves because they wanted to continue to serve their country,for whatever reason. I saw many of them stay in under extreme hardships including being threatened with losing their job, taking their civ. vacation time to be able to deploy, losing over time from being at drill, jerked around on work schedules, etc. Their depth of knowledge of the C-130 was and is amazing. Dedication in the guard and reserves is second to none. You don't join the guard to be a slacker! What Bush did is ok by me. Bill

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Yep, Bush is a vet. Just like us. But have you read about his military controversy? Interesting read. Including altered flight logs. Joining the Guard or Reserve gives people a way to serve. But for me, Bush did it as a way to fill in the checkmark boxes. Nothing more.

Dedication in the guard and reserves is second to none. You don't join the guard to be a slacker

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_military_service_controversy

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The only thing I can say about the guard and reserves is this: When I learned back about 1980 or so that Martinsburg was going from 121's to 130's , I said to myself ' Self, you need to get into that." I had been out about six years. I called them, talked to some desk jockey who told me that they didn't need any loadmasters, but they had a slot for somebody in disaster preparedness. I said 'Now listen, I got nearly 1300 hours in the C-130, I was Lapes, and halo qualified, and on my last checkride I was recommended for instructor up-grade training ( how THAT ever came about I will never know). and you want me to help work out a plan in case your storm drains back up?" I left it at that, and that was my mistake, I have gone down there, talked to people in the flying end, and who knows. I kick myself a lot for lettin' that get by. I know many guys who went guard and reserve, and there is no doubt in my mind they carried the ball, too. I don't see how some of them did it with their regular jobs and all. Like I said, wish i had done it, too.

And let me add this,,,generally and majority speaking, every guy (and lady) who wore our nation's uniforms and did their job honorably and to the best of their ability, all are VETERANS, every one and should be proud of that. I know that I had one of the best jobs in the Air Force, but I could never have been able to do what I did and have as much fun and such great experiences had it not been for the maintainers who worked on the planes under all kinds of conditions, the admin people who got me paid, the people at the in-flight kitchen who made the coffee and the in-flight meals, the security police officer who made sure nobody messed with our airplane, the refueler guys, the folks who mowed the grass, on and on. So you wanna bristle me up, just say 'I was just a....whatever." There ain't no such phrase in my vocabulary like that when it comes to that. I worked for the U.S Census back in '10, and i encountered a guy who had worked in "Hilda" the airlift command center in Vietnam, and he was the real thing, cause he knew too much about trash hauling not to be, and his philosophy was this " If you never served this nation, in uniform, and were physically and mentally, capable, you ain't a citizen, you're just a visitor.""" Some truth to that......... NUFF SAID!

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