larry myers

I wouldn't normally comment on this thread as I've been out of the loop too long and don't have a clue as to what the situation is today. However, several weeks ago was at Langley and recieved a briefing from the AAC CSAR honcho. During his briefing the Col. was questioned about whether CSAR was a better fit in AFSOC. The Col., as a rescue chopper pilot, had served in AFSOC when CSAR was part of that command. His postion was that AFSOC didn't have a good feel as how to employ CSAR assets. And that the command was continunly attempting to blend the CSAR mission into the Spec. Ops. mission. He went on to say at that CSAR is right where it should be....AAC. To Dan Wilson's point the Col. spoke favorably about the ready availability of funding. I'm guessing it hasn't changed in the past 25 or so years but as I recall, money was hardly ever an issue in AFSOC. A surprise to me was the old, wornout, obsolete equipment the CSAR forces are flying. We are pretty good at killing bad guys but lousy at buying replacement airplanes. Case in point, the 135 replacement, the truncated F-22 buy, the CSAR H-60 replacement and on and on.

When I arrived CCK Jan. 71 many of the assigned acft. wing tanks were stored in the tank farm. Shortly thereafter senior leadership decided that all acft. would have tanks installed. What a goat rope that turned out to be. After setting in the tank farm for god knows how long getting the tanks hung was the easy part. Getting them to function, not so easy.

Not a pretty sight.

Chris, Great photos. I think it's very cool that you were able to hookup with your old aircraft. Sounds like the unit gave you the VIP treatment (as it should be). Don't forget to take it off your bucket list.

You know you have been around a long long time when you witness your acft. going through not one but two MLG brake upgrades. Recall sometime during 1966/67 when all Es went from single disc brakes to the now obsolete multi disc brakes. Then they represented a huge improvement in stopping power over the single disc brakes. And maintenance was happy as they almost never leaked and service life was much longer. My guess is these brakes will become a favorite of air and ground crews. Stopping distance should be shorter and they should take much more abuse. Additionally, MTBF should increase and brake maintenance should become a rare occurance.

Casey, I agree completly with all the above. And for someone who claims they don't know what thier doing I'd say your doing a damm fine job.

Giz, Oh yea. There will be several old fart pilots, same with maintenance troops, navs, loadies and probably even an old tried ass retired firefighter. Hopfully there will also be some FEs able to get out of thier Lazyboy and report. Of course this is all in jest, so when you see me please don't beat on me. I'm very old and fragile. I hope Rex ordered very bold print on the name tags so we can read them. Clear three, Myers

I graduated from the B-47 tech training course at Amarillo in Sep. 57 with an E AFSC shredout. From there was sent to the 9th BW at Mt. Home AFB, a B-47E outfit. When I reenlisted in 61 requested an overseas assignment. About a year later finally recieved an assignment to Rhein Main AB. Upon arrival discovered my new outfit was flying C-130As What the hell was that big fan on the front of the jet engine. Couple of years later it seems the AF decided the turbo prop guys needed their own AFSC. One day in my mail box there turned up an AF form 1098 informing me I was now a 43171F. I kept the F untill about 72 when was awarded a 9 level. This spelled the begining of the end for me in the herk world.

I always look closely at the troops pictured in old photos that members post and up till now have not recoginized anyone. I knew if I kept looking would one day find someone I knew and lo and behold believe I've suceeded. Believe the officer in the second row second from the right is a good fellow named Davidson. In the front row second from the right the SSgt is, I believe a flight line troop whose name is Gregorio. The three of us where stationed together at the AFFTC in the AMST IOT&E test team from 75 till 78. I would be extremely grateful if someone here could confirm if I'm correct and any info about these guys after 1978.

John, Can tell you for sure that 534 was/is a FrankenHerc of the first order. What surprises me is the bird is still more or less in one piece. Would have thought that after 50 plus years it would have long ago ended up as something usefull such as beer cans. For example, there was an AC generator on all four engines. The engine oil tanks were oversize. The crew oxygen system was liquid oxygen. There were two nav positions. The ramp and door had no actuators and in fact was only opened at PDM. The air conditioning system was one of kind. It had a tube type APN 99 doppler. Remember the freq. tracker has guite large and heavy. It was a difficult two man task getting it in and out of the under flight deck mount. All A II act. had two aux. fuel tanks in pretty much the same position as the B/E acft. However, they could not be fueled by single point. Had to pull the fuel nozzle over the leading edge of the wing much like a Goony Bird. This could be a touch and go situation when the wing was slippery. The acft. was equipted was an ECM system, don't remember which one. As is the case with all highly modified acft. none of our acft. were the same and the E Systems tech data was poor. So maintenance was often by trial and error. The one big advantage we had was our acft. were under the Big Safire (sic) Program, thus spares were not a problem. The old units web site is www.7406 Support Squadron.com. BTY, am impressed with your companys maintenance capability. Undertaking a major rebuild such as 520 is not something just anyone could accomplish. Further, in looking at photos of the company acft. it seems to me they receive a lot of tlc.

That's exactly what I would expect an ex herk guys desk to look like. Sooo organized in my view.

During 1969 I was the Transit Alert honcho at Phu Cat. Herk crews did many buddy starts there. It was easy to tell the crews that had done it before. They would put the nose under the front acft's beavertail and tell the front crew to go to power. Worked almost every time. Within minutes both acft. would be airborn. On the other hand the inexperienced crews were too cautious, afraid to taxi in to position. Buddy starts didn't work well from 100 ft. plus. As Alan Baker states the acft needing the buddy start had to get close, i.e., the radome within touching distance of the tailgate. Watching two experienced air crews buddy start was an eye opening experience for the TA guys as they were all fighter troops and were amazed that such a procedure was possible. The big drawback of buddy starts was that in some instances it caused engine fod. On the other hand it got crews back to beautiful downtown CRB/TSN.

John, Your comment about 57-0520 getting 56-534s outer wings caught my eye. I was the crew chief on 534 from the summer of 62 to mid year 66. Good to know it is still contributing. Am wondering if the the outer wings are orginial. As I recall the airframe would have been very high time. Sometime around 1964/65 the 322 AD had a big celebration as several of their acft. had reached 3,000 hours. At that time our acft. were approaching 6,000 hours. Our outfit was flying a classified mission so, of course, we couldn't beat our chest publicly. In any case, it's good to see old war birds still hacking the mission.

After four years flying on the three bladed A model I thought the E four blade was smooth as silk. What do I know.

herkfixer, Do you know the TCTO number for the brake mod?

Dan, You could very well be right. Twenty years ago I had been out five years. As I've said before, sometimes can't remember what I have for lunch. Btw, how are you doing on your house? Good to hear the starter button hold in feature has been eliminated. I learned early on that a starter not operating iaw the manual needed to be, in most cases, replaced. To do otherwise was courting disaster. I witnessed the results of the MAC inroute support sqd.at Incerlik attempting to adjust the centrifical switches on a malfunctioning # three engine starter. On ops. ck. it blew up and sent schrapnel through both sides of the cargo compartment, with at least one piece puncturing the nose of the left ext. tank. The aircraft looked as though it had be hosed down with a 50 cal. Took depot repair to get it back in the air. After that when my acft. had a starter malfunction I insisted on by the book maintenance. Bob's post above confirms my position.

I stand corrected.

Giz, I think what your posting about was the nav. inserting the IFF mode 4 code which changed daily.

Holy cow.....a limit that hasn't changed in 50 years.

Giz, In your (and my) day there were two AWADS Sqds. One at Pope and one at LR.

Geez guys, it seems that some two years after the orginal post herky 3615 has found and fixed his fuel leak.

Next job.. Sqd. admin. officer. In the early 80s a 20th TFW F-111E pilot got a little carried away and broke windows in his familys Scotland hometown. His next job was in the right seat of a KC-135.

Herk Jerk, The -6 should tell you.

Geez Sonny, that had to be a tough switch. I remember the first E engine fuel control we changed. Remembering the A control, mounted via eight or ten nuts, two of which on the back side and almost impossible to get to. Boy was I a happy camper when discovering the E control was mounted by a marmon clamp. Piece of cake. We changed and ops ckd the E control in less time than it took to get the A control off it's mount. Going from the A to the E, piece of cake. Going from the E to the A, not so much.

Chris, I spent two tours at Langley in the 316th OMS, 36th TAS and the 37th. My recollection of that time is mostly favorable. I arrived Langley from Rhein Main in mid June 66. There were no acft. assigned at that point. Maintenance was organized iaw AFM 66-1, i.e., OMS FMS AMS. Don't remember when, but some time later the AF reshuffled maintenance iaw AFM 66-31. The end result being maintenance including specialists were incorporated in the TASs. As I recall this was done to better deal with deployments. I sure liked it better. You got to know the people who flew your aircraft and all the troops working on it. And overall the sqd. became more efficient, generating more sorties. I was in the 36th from I believe early 67 to early 68 best I recall. Of the 16 crew chiefs there was 14 SSgts, most of whom were 7 level. One A1c and one TSgt. A really great bunch of guys. If you needed help there was always someone there to pitch in. My recollection of the 36th was that in my thirty year career it stands out as one of the best units ever. Ferreir was the commander, again one of the best. Had one of the best flight chiefs one could have. His name was Lod Seal. He invited me to his home to teach me how to write APRs. Did one rotation to Mildenhall. At some point was promoted to Tech and transfered to the 37th. Don't remember why, perhaps because the 37th was short of TSgts. Crewed for a short time and then became a flight chief. The 37th was also a very good outfit. Good aircrews that didn't panic when there was a drop of oil on the oil cooler flap. Did one rotation to Mildenhall with the 37th. In Dec. 68 went PCS to Phu Cat. Dec. 69 returned to the 37th, same work center. Was surprised how much a very good unit could go down the tube in such a short time. The primary reason was a large shortage of maintenance manpower coupled with a heavy flying schedule. As soon as a mech would get a five level, MPC would ship him off to SEA. Shortly after arriving made MSgt. Assigned as the nite shift supervisor. The daily flying schedule was fly 12 turn 5. More often than not when we went home there would be maybe seven or eight ready to go, another one or two maybe and the rest not way. Sometime we would work from 1700 until the day shift reported the next morning. Needless to say this situation was a major thorn in my side. After unsuccessfully pleading my case with the big guys I begain shutting down at midnite. Job Control would plead and my answer was always no can do. Surprisingly I was never called on the carpet. Week end duty came every other week. And it was usually a ball buster. On a Sunday morning about 0200 after being on duty about 18 hours we ruined an engine by running it sans power section oil pressure. Instead of the pump drive spline being in the gearbox it was in the MD3 FOD can. On Monday morning the Col. asked me how long we had been on duty. I told him and with that he dismissed us. Not another word was uttered. I was so disgusted by all this bs I tried to get out of maintenance. In Feb. 71 went PCS to CCK. Looking back some 40 plus years I would say for the most part the 36 and 37 were good units. After all I snagged two promotions from these units Ask Giz about the commander who though it would save much money by removing all the single troops from seperate rations. I remember this but was not affected. How a senior officer sqd. commander could think something like this would be good for the unit is byond me. Was strange going in the mess hall only to see large numbers of NCOs partaking.