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Blind Bat

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I've not been on here very much in Dec, but my heart goes out to you Sonny.

I could have lost my wife for she had kidney cancer but the kidney was removed on the 19th of dec.

Justa fluke the doc. found it.

I was around some of the time Ben was but for the life I can't remember him.

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Sonny,

Your wife's memory's will always be with you—but yes, in time your pain over her death will fade. It won't happen all at once, but little by little comfort will come—with God's help. I lost my mother to cancer.

US Air Force motto: "Aim High ... Fly-Fight-Win"

Bob

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if your husband was on Blind Bat, that does not qualify him for the herbicide benefits. They are only for persons who served "boots on the ground" in South Vietnam. You need to come up with information showing that he was TDY to Cam Ranh Bay, which is where we flew out of from Naha in 66-67, or Tan Son Nhut, where the Naha crews operated out of in 1969-70.

My husband Benjamin Sager was in the Air Force and flew with Operation Blind Bat during Vietnam (Based out of Naha) during 1966-1969 and I’m looking for information, please. He is ill and is fighting the VA as they say there is not “evidence of boots on the ground†although all his military records state so.

He was on extended TDY at Ubon RTAFB, Thailand as Crew Chief during 7 July 67 to 3 May 68. His aircraft number was 56-0523. George A. Ingram, TSgt, Crew Chief, Delbert L. Greve, MSgt Flight Chief and Richard S. Mickley, Capt, 21 TAS all signed his Additional Duties Sheet dated 3 May 1968.

He was also assigned to the Ground Crew as the aircraft mechanic (43131F) on Aircraft 56-549 and was on TDY in SEA during 7 July 66 to 6 Jul 67.

I would be grateful for any information anyone can provide. He’s a Type II Diabetic as well as has severe Degenerative Disc Disease and nerve compression in his head and has just undergone his 8th surgery since April 2007 and his 3rd head surgery since March of this year.

Thank you so much and many blessings,

Becky Sager, beckysager@peoplepc.com If any of you blind bat vets know Ben and can help it will be appreciated. Pardon me I did'nt post his e-mail correctly. This is correct..

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Blind Bat troops didn't go TDY to SVN.

What Becky Sager really needs is one of the Blind Bat troops to step up a vouch for her husband being at Ubon and TDY to SVN. If anyone remembers him and can sign a paper to vouch for him being in country is what she needs. Hopefully there is one of the old Crew Chiefs out there that remembers him and will do this for their benefit.

Gary Robinson

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Blind Bat troops didn't go TDY to SVN.

Sam, I'm not sure what you mean that Blind Bat troops did not go TDY to SVN. I know for sure that most of the maint. guys like Becky's husband did go TDY to both places. A lot of us including the crew chiefs on Blind Bat birds did 60 or 120 day rotations to CRB and also TSN. I for one, did go TDY as a crew member on a Blind Bat crew to Ubon, and did many TDY's to CRB as a crew chief and also one 60 day TDY there. In other words, not all of the designated Blind Bat (black bellied) birds were ONLY used in Thailand!!

I am speaking about just the Blind Bat guys & airplanes stationed at Naha while I was there from 67-69!!

I know nothing about Blind Bat after the mission was moved to CCK .

Sam, what I have found since joining this forum is that nothing the USAF did during that time is a certain fact!!

Ken

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You might suggest a closer look at sites where Agent Orange was used. I recently read where the DOD finally admitted using the product around the bases in Thailand. This just happened within the last couple years. If I can find the info I will forward it.

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You might suggest a closer look at sites where Agent Orange was used. I recently read where the DOD finally admitted using the product around the bases in Thailand. This just happened within the last couple years. If I can find the info I will forward it.

I googled Agent Orange in Thailand and the first one listed was from the VA. It gives all the particulars on its use at the bases. It says the info is from a recently declassified Checo Report. Korea is also mentioned.

I will send this to Mrs Sager

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I did Blind Bat tdys at Ubon from Sept 68 to Jan 70. The Blind Bat commander had to go to Tan Son Nhut several times a month for meetings. As a crew chief I made several trips down there with them. We had to down load the flair kit so we could park at base ops.

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Having spent years of study, my own battle with the VA (still on going) and frequenting Veteran sites, I can offer some advice both for the lady and fellow Aircrew.

Best site for preparing for, documenting boots, and vast knowledge....http://www.hadit.com. Another knowledgable group....http://vets.yuku.com.

You are your best advocate for your claim. You can have VVA, VFW, ect. but unless you stay on top of it, it will take longer. Get a copy of your C file from the VA so you can read what they are doing. Indeed some Veterans have found someone else"s documents in their folder. Treat every scrap of paper you can find (the ladies on Hadit recommend a three ring binder).

As for the lady, Thailand is a wrong end. There has not been substantive evidence of widespread use if AO on base other than the afore mentioned perimeter. There exists rumors that a large number of 55 gal drums buried at the end of Ubon's runway and then the RW paved over but this has not been verified. She should be going through every scrap of paper looking for per deim slips, orders, any possible tie to boots. Peer verification is substantive evidence, so keep asking guys if they remember him.

Someone mentioned notifying their congress critter. You can, but they have to pull your file, review it from cover to cover, come to a decision and then run it up the flagpole. Consequence? Delay. This all takes time and it may very well result in your file going to the bottom of the pile. If you have heavy sway, go for it.

Those that have been denied recently, may ask for a face to face review with a rating officer. This will give you one more bite at the apple before it going to BVA. BVA turn-arounds are now in years.

Someone mentioned that the VA employees are liberals. Past behaviour would suggest far right leanings evidenced with their preoccupation of saving the taxpayers. Google Dr. Norma Perez.

I'm tired now Gentlemen, so I'm going to bed.

I will come back tomorrow and add more or try to answer questions.

Sarg

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I have not yet taken the time to look up the web sites that sarg has suggested, but simply want to add that what sarge has said is probably some of the best advice I've seen on this topic. Everyones experiences are different as is each of the VA District Office and thier response to claims, but some things are constant. You are your best (maybe only) advocate. Keep each and every piece of paper. If you can do it yourself, do it yourself; don't trust anyone with your future.

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Blind Bat troops didn't go TDY to SVN.

The HELL they didn't. I went to Ubon twice, Cam Rahn Bay 3 times, and TSN once. There were also many side trips to Da Nang, etc. Don't tell me Blind Bat troops didn't go to SVN.

Gary Robinson

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I was in Blind Bat, 21st, 41st, and 374 OMS. Been to CRB many times. In Naha from 1968-71 and many TDY's as a Blind bat troop.....

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I flew one Blind Bat TDY to Ubon out of Naha. My plane was hit by a 37 MM in the right wheel well and the refueling panel caught on fire. The plane landed safely and we put it back together enough to fly back to Naha. I don't remember the tail number, but it went back to MOD. I am not sure if it ever returned. Photos of the damage are in my gallery. This was an "A" model. That is all I flew out of Naha. The rest of my time at Naha was spent at CRB.

I flew on the plane the night before it was hit. My Assistant flew the night it was hit. Too young to be scared, I guess.

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As far as my experiences go, we flew straight from Naha to Ubon and back the same way! What I remember is that a crew that was on their R&R during their 90 day TDY, hopped on a bird with a returning crew and went back to Ubon on another input seven days later! I did that once! That is not saying for sure that some planes didn't stop elsewhere going to and from Ubon! After all,how many times during your tour(s) there did you find yourself landing somewhere you had no idea you were going to?

Does any of what I just said make any sense? :confused:

Ken

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As far as my experiences go, we flew straight from Naha to Ubon and back the same way! What I remember is that a crew that was on their R&R during their 90 day TDY, hopped on a bird with a returning crew and went back to Ubon on another input seven days later! I did that once! That is not saying for sure that some planes didn't stop elsewhere going to and from Ubon! After all,how many times during your tour(s) there did you find yourself landing somewhere you had no idea you were going to?

Does any of what I just said make any sense? :confused:

Ken

I'm with you Ken. I don't recall stopping anywhere on the way to Ubon from Naha. Now going to CRB or other places it was common to divert to another destination.

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Any one remember a fairly new Dodge Crew Cab truck at Ubon that supposed to have been pillfered from Danang one rainy night? Had to transfer fuel from other trucks as we did not have a gas card for it.

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Blind Bat group, just up load a few photos anyone you know?

John, Nope, you would think one of us would recognize one of those fine looking gentlemen!!! I think your pics would get more "looks" if you would put them in the "users gallery". I have put all of my pictures in my users gallery, and most have around a 1000 or more "looks"! I personally would like to see any pics you might have---especially of the Blind Bat type!!

Have a nice day,

Ken

PS I would still like to have one of the patches like your avatar!! I am fairly sure I would qualify for one!!!

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My husband Benjamin Sager was in the Air Force and flew with Operation Blind Bat during Vietnam (Based out of Naha) during 1966-1969 and I’m looking for information, please. He is ill and is fighting the VA as they say there is not “evidence of boots on the ground†although all his military records state so.

He was on extended TDY at Ubon RTAFB, Thailand as Crew Chief during 7 July 67 to 3 May 68. His aircraft number was 56-0523. George A. Ingram, TSgt, Crew Chief, Delbert L. Greve, MSgt Flight Chief and Richard S. Mickley, Capt, 21 TAS all signed his Additional Duties Sheet dated 3 May 1968.

He was also assigned to the Ground Crew as the aircraft mechanic (43131F) on Aircraft 56-549 and was on TDY in SEA during 7 July 66 to 6 Jul 67.

I would be grateful for any information anyone can provide. He’s a Type II Diabetic as well as has severe Degenerative Disc Disease and nerve compression in his head and has just undergone his 8th surgery since April 2007 and his 3rd head surgery since March of this year.

Thank you so much and many blessings,

Becky Sager, beckysager@peoplepc.com If any of you blind bat vets know Ben and can help it will be appreciated. Pardon me I did'nt post his e-mail correctly. This is correct..

Oldthread (I know),

The Air Commando Association is another place she can go.

I'll send her an e-mail later today with that data.

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We got this straightened out. Becky got in contact with me. It turns out that Ben had what he needed all along but was focusing on his Blind Bat time when he should have been focusing on his TDY to Cam Ranh Bay. She sent me a copy of an APR that mentioned so many days TDY but said "Southeast Asia." She also sent me excerpts from the 374th history. I wrote a letter to the VA and pointed out that during the time frame mentioned the only place the Naha wing was TDY other than Ubon, which was mentioned elsewhere, was Cam Ranh. At first they turned him down (again) but then they realized the APR was proof.

Speaking of Blind Bat, Ralph Krach passed away a couple of months ago.

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