Elevator Boost System-why is it 'upside down'

[Stygian USN]

Hi everyone, I've been trying to figure out why the elevator boost system is reversed, compared to the aileron/rudder assemblies. I've heard theories, and have looked into the NATOPS, and the lockheed manuals, sorry airforce I dont know your books too well, but I'm looking for a pub or something official saying why.

I have heard that the elevator boost assembly was simply designed to be installed upside down, which I guess makes sense. But I have also heard that it was put in that way to prevent confusion since if you're inspecting it, you'd have to face aft and therefore get the filters (for example) confused. I find this hard to believe, but any help would be greatly appreciated

[frank t]

hi stygian the elevator boost pack , sometimes called the " shotgun assy. " is actually installed upside down so the cargo door can open properly. f.thomas retired navy l/m inst.-- and f/e

[tinyclark]

Since I have no idea what you are referring to, and can't go out and look at an aircraft anymore, I am bowing out of this one.

[jhjbd]

when you speak of hydraulic systems, I know that the left is utility and right is booster. when you're looking back and see a loss of fluid from your left hand, I know I have to cut is the utility. that's why it is reversed. That is to avoid confusion in the emergency procedure.

[Stygian USN]

Thanks guys, I was wondering where one would find that explanation in an official capacity. people here are saying it's odd they would design it that way, because sure it makes sense it needs to be upside down if its in the way, but the hydraulic lines could've been designed around that requirement, so that all packages were utility left booster right for the sake of uniformity. either way a legitimate reference to the details would be amazing.

[tinyclark]

You'll probably have to contact Lockheed Martin.

[munirabbasi]

HI Jhjbd

Absolutely I agree with you. if Call communicated during flight from LM/GC leak from left side (cargo looking aft ) leak is observed elevator boost package assy,definitely CP will take action emergency against utility HYD system where actual leak is booster side so create the confusion during emergency that why elevator control assy upside down i.e Utility HYD SOV RH & Booster LH

Regards

Munir Abbasi

Home of hercules pakistan

[Stygian USN]

i feel like keeping them all the same would be more helpful and less confusing. we're supposed to treat everything in reference to the aircraft, and so when i look aft at the empannage, I see port on my right and starboard on my left. and the rudder boost package is pretty far back there as well, far enough we can reasonably assume we'd be looking aft of the aircraft. And it is not reversed. I'd still like to find an official source and if I find it I will share with you all.

[tinyclark]

All of the USAF hydraulic and general maintenance books that I have don't mention anything about the installation, even the A-model hydraulics book. If you contact Lockheed Martin, they would probably have to look at some archived materials. I kind of doubt that anyone working there would even know, since this is an early 50's design. IMost of the engineers that worked on the design would probably be retired from life by now. But if you do find something, please post it.

[NATOPS1]

FYI, ALL the flight control boost shutoff switches are set up like the elevator.

The Booster side is on the Left and the Utility side is on the right...

[munirabbasi]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4331[/ATTACH]See Picture of EL boost assy & HYD SOV SW[ATTACH=CONFIG]4329[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]4330[/ATTACH]

Edited August 27, 2014 by munirabbasi
Image

[gizzard]

Hey, troops, the world renowned Giz is BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just had to say about this....sometimes I would have a pax ask what that was back there, cause they could see the rods moving. I would tell them that it was our tail guns, in search mode. Never once did anyone ask why the bores were visible instead of the receivers.................... My wife and I went to Wisconsin to visit Tinwhistle in June. What a trip!!!!!!!!!!!! EVERYBODY should go..........................TNX, TW, we really had a grand time..

load clear

Giz

[tinwhistle]

You are very welcome!!!!!!! Can't tell ya how much we enjoyed having you here! If nothing else, we got the 10 cent tour of the Wisconsin River!!!!!!!!!

[gizzard]

You are very welcome!!!!!!! Can't tell ya how much we enjoyed having you here! If nothing else, we got the 10 cent tour of the Wisconsin River!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, but she still has that damn quacker!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[bobdaley]

Giz

Are you and the bride coming to Pigeon Forge?

Bob

[gizzard]

Giz

Are you and the bride coming to Pigeon Forge?

Bob

No, we will be providing 18th century education, information and entertainment to the public at the Museum of the American Frontier, in Staunton, Va.. Reckon y'all will have to carry on without us this year.................

Giz

[bobdaley]

We'll miss you both.

Bob

[AMPTestFE]

The best answer I've heard is from a prior A-model guy. I didn't know this, but apparently the A had a different set-up for the hydraulic pumps. Engines 1 & 3 supplied pressure to one system, while 2 & 4 supplied the other. When the pressure lines fed into the fuselage & back to the elevator, it just worked out that the utility side of the elevator happened to be on the right. When Lockheed figured out they could save money by reconfiguring the hydraulics, they eliminated extra hydraulic tubing with the current configuration. However, they saw no benefit to reconfiguring the elevator actuator set-up.

If that's a bunch of bull, someone who knows can correct me. Like I said, I didn't make that up....maybe someone else did.

:0)

[munirabbasi]

Dear AMPTestFE

My opinion is a litter different to you. if you physically see the EL shutoff valves of my previous images ,you will find aft cargo above the door front of plate EL boost shut off valve aft of the plate UTY SOV. two tubes/piping does not matter the cost. if you see the AIL SVO & RUDDER SOV LH AFT & RH FWD respectively EL SOV opposite.

I would like suggest you you will see the EL SOV physically.

Regards

Munir Abbasi

Home of Hercules of Pakistan

[GVS]

AMPtestFE,On the"A" model,engine 1-booster,2-utility,3-bo,4-ut. or BUBU.Were later models setup differently?

[Rayj]

Back in olden times one of the old guys told me Lockheed told him the plumbing had to make a 180 degree turn to help compensate for expansion and contraction while the system was in use.

[Max Power]

AMPtestFE,On the"A" model,engine 1-booster,2-utility,3-bo,4-ut. or BUBU.Were later models setup differently?

#1 and #2 are utility, #3 and #4 are for booster on later models.

[GVS]

That makes no sence to me.If 2 engines on one side are shut down, you've lost an entire hyd.system.If it happens to be the utility sys. it's emer. gear ext. time,hope you can get the flaps down and no reverse prop thrust.Then hope the emer.brake system can bring you to a stop before the end of the runway.

[NATOPS1]

True 1 and 2 are the Utility system hyd source... NO flaps, put flap lever at 15%+ to get Hi rudder boost, Crank the Main gear (hope they freefall) energy extend the NLG with aux hyds, No NWS... So just let it roll the Emerg Brakes are good so no stopping issue when "slower" bring the props to GI Rev #3 steer with #4

[GVS]

I've been away from 130s since early '65 and that was on "A" models.Until I came upon this site in the late '90s I didn't know squat about Bs,Es,Hs or any of the many variations of the models.I know the" A"s had quite a few shortcomings.Needed more range,a stronger empenage,a little more power and much better props.Stronger wings wouldn't have hurt either but even the" J " needs a stronger wing but I've got to believe that in some ways the "A"s were better thought out than later models.